Pipd's Peeps!

[2ndTink]

Nora update! I decided to quote the other pictures to compare rather than posting them again.



Non-injury side. The swelling has gone down quite a lot now! She's just a bit puffy underneath her eye at this point.

View attachment 3743310




The injury side is looking a lot better, so I don't think I'm going to bother spoilering it this time. The swelling is down a lot on this side, and that pretty eye finally opened up more. It does look like her eyelid may have been damaged a little bit at the back edge, but she seems to be doing fine and is healing as she should.

View attachment 3743313


She's looking pretty good at this point! I think I'm going to give her a couple more days to let the mite treatment really kick in before I send her back outside again, though. I'm sure she'll be happy to be back with her sisters, and no other incidents have happened, whether that's because I've been moving Trixie to another perch every night or mere coincidence with that.

I was going to ask about her, that's looking much better!

I had a cow rip the bottom 3/8" of its eyelid off about half way across, I never knew how it happened, but it healed up and didn't seem to bother it. Had another one somehow shatter the bottom side of its horn right as the base and it splintered a few inches along the horn, again, no clue how it happened, but it healed as well, always had a lump.

The ability of animals and humans to heal and compensate is amazing. And other times, the smallest thing kills them... no clue.

You're almost back to the coop Nora, a few more days of good care and you'll be back with your friends telling all your adventure stories!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

So, wild type isn't what happens if all the genes are recessive necessarily, the red jungle Fowl was chosen as the baseline that all genetics are compared to? It's not the absence or presence but a chosen standard, then every other color gene is compared to that standard?

Correct, while many wildtype genes are recessive, recessive does not mean the same thing as wildtype. Silkied feathering is an example of this. The wildtype is smooth feathering, H+, which is dominant to silkied feathering, h. It's less a chosen standard and more just what the wild population had before human intervention allowed for other, less ideal traits to survive, like pure white plumage that doesn't camouflage well, or large crests that block vision, or silkied feathering that is less weatherproof, etc.

So if I think of it as a stack of wood building blocks, I start with a baseline of everything it takes to make a red junglefowl, each block represents one allele, then I could swap out the red jungle Fowl allele blocks for "non wild type" mutations of each allele? So in my rough sketch below the single comb black remain but the two blocks for color have been swapped for Bl so the bird would be splash colored (assuming no other genes play into how it is expressed)
View attachment 3743319

Yes, that sounds like you're understanding correctly!

I was going to ask about her, that's looking much better!

I had a cow rip the bottom 3/8" of its eyelid off about half way across, I never knew how it happened, but it healed up and didn't seem to bother it. Had another one somehow shatter the bottom side of its horn right as the base and it splintered a few inches along the horn, again, no clue how it happened, but it healed as well, always had a lump.

The ability of animals and humans to heal and compensate is amazing. And other times, the smallest thing kills them... no clue.

Animals really have a talent for finding any way to injure themselves spectacularly, don't they? I'm glad that your cows were able to recover from such injuries! It is truly amazing what they can come back from on one hand, and what seemingly minor things they manage to off themselves with on the other hand.

 

[2ndTink]

Correct, while many wildtype genes are recessive, recessive does not mean the same thing as wildtype. Silkied feathering is an example of this. The wildtype is smooth feathering, H+, which is dominant to silkied feathering, h. It's less a chosen standard and more just what the wild population had before human intervention allowed for other, less ideal traits to survive, like pure white plumage that doesn't camouflage well, or large crests that block vision, or silkied feathering that is less weatherproof, etc.




Yes, that sounds like you're understanding correctly!




Animals really have a talent for finding any way to injure themselves spectacularly, don't they? I'm glad that your cows were able to recover from such injuries! It is truly amazing what they can come back from on one hand, and what seemingly minor things they manage to off themselves with on the other hand.

So, to have heartier birds with less issues, we all need to go back to raising red jungle Fowl and give up raising these cute little fluffy butts I'm not sure I can lol, but I'm sure the jungle Fowl have been selectively bred as well, so might as well just keep trying to get our fancy little fluffs to be more robust.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Yeah, any red junglefowl you'd get nowadays won't be the same bird that came out of the jungle thousands of years ago. Hatchery 'red junglefowl' are intermixed with domestic chickens, intentionally or not, and even breeder red junglefowl most likely have a percentage of domestic chicken genes in them as well, plus would most likely have been bred toward the written standard and thus not be much different than any other standardized breed as far as hardiness goes. I have read that even the wild populations of junglefowl that exist today most likely aren't even 'pure' anymore due to intermixing with escaped domestics, so it's likely that the red junglefowl as it was before human intervention no longer even exists.

The reality is that selectively breeding any animal toward a specific standard narrows their gene pool, and that generally makes for weaker individuals. That's why feral populations of domestic chickens that interbreed as they please or varieties that are less selectively bred (like Easter-eggers, for example) tend to be hardier. Fancy breeds like my Cochins or your Silkies, they suffer from that narrow gene pool from decades of selective breeding for the specific traits that make them their respective breeds. Not breeding in such a way results in birds that over time stop really resembling the proper breed, however. This is why hatchery birds end up looking like they do, only vaguely resembling the breed they're meant to be, because they're mass bred to sell many chicks instead of only the very best representatives of the breed being used to produce a few chicks. The gene pool ends up broader as a result, and because of that the birds produced are often way off of the standard, but also often hardier--unless you're talking high-production egg layers or fast-growing meat birds, as those come with their own unique sets of issues.

Obviously, breeding in such a way doesn't work out very well if you have a passion for a specific breed and specifically want to work with it. The long and short of it is that the best we can do is breed the healthiest individuals that best represent their breed, even if the less-than-healthy ones are favorites or have sentimental value of some sort (something I need to tell myself as much as anyone else!!). Obviously in cases like where a bird dies suddenly, that's hard to see coming to avoid breeding that individual beforehand, but we can only do our best and hope that it shows in the results!

...Err, sorry that turned into such a long ramble! I guess I have more than a few thoughts on the subject, haha!

 

[2ndTink]

Yeah, any red junglefowl you'd get nowadays won't be the same bird that came out of the jungle thousands of years ago. Hatchery 'red junglefowl' are intermixed with domestic chickens, intentionally or not, and even breeder red junglefowl most likely have a percentage of domestic chicken genes in them as well, plus would most likely have been bred toward the written standard and thus not be much different than any other standardized breed as far as hardiness goes. I have read that even the wild populations of junglefowl that exist today most likely aren't even 'pure' anymore due to intermixing with escaped domestics, so it's likely that the red junglefowl as it was before human intervention no longer even exists.

The reality is that selectively breeding any animal toward a specific standard narrows their gene pool, and that generally makes for weaker individuals. That's why feral populations of domestic chickens that interbreed as they please or varieties that are less selectively bred (like Easter-eggers, for example) tend to be hardier. Fancy breeds like my Cochins or your Silkies, they suffer from that narrow gene pool from decades of selective breeding for the specific traits that make them their respective breeds. Not breeding in such a way results in birds that over time stop really resembling the proper breed, however. This is why hatchery birds end up looking like they do, only vaguely resembling the breed they're meant to be, because they're mass bred to sell many chicks instead of only the very best representatives of the breed being used to produce a few chicks. The gene pool ends up broader as a result, and because of that the birds produced are often way off of the standard, but also often hardier--unless you're talking high-production egg layers or fast-growing meat birds, as those come with their own unique sets of issues.

Obviously, breeding in such a way doesn't work out very well if you have a passion for a specific breed and specifically want to work with it. The long and short of it is that the best we can do is breed the healthiest individuals that best represent their breed, even if the less-than-healthy ones are favorites or have sentimental value of some sort (something I need to tell myself as much as anyone else!!). Obviously in cases like where a bird dies suddenly, that's hard to see coming to avoid breeding that individual beforehand, but we can only do our best and hope that it shows in the results!

...Err, sorry that turned into such a long ramble! I guess I have more than a few thoughts on the subject, haha!

Ramble on! Your logic sounds spot on to me. I need more silkie eggs from where I got Star, they didn't baby their silkies, they've had them several years and it sounded a bit "survival of the fittest" not that they weren't well cared for, but like, no sissies allowed. I need those genetics!

I've gone back and forth about breeding mixes, but crossing my EE rooster to my BAs was a decision based on how healthy those BAs are and really great layers. I'm not sure what the SOP is for BAs but I know these are not, because all 3 look different from eachother but, healthy, good layers, why not hatch a few chicks? I'll be setting more from them in my next hatch, come on black and blue chickies!

I've wondered how to make a more robust silkie, the TSC silkies seem really healthy, but they are pretty far from the standard.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Ramble on! Your logic sounds spot on to me. I need more silkie eggs from where I got Star, they didn't baby their silkies, they've had them several years and it sounded a bit "survival of the fittest" not that they weren't well cared for, but like, no sissies allowed. I need those genetics!

They sound like a good place to start for working on more robust Silkies!

I've gone back and forth about breeding mixes, but crossing my EE rooster to my BAs was a decision based on how healthy those BAs are and really great layers. I'm not sure what the SOP is for BAs but I know these are not, because all 3 look different from eachother but, healthy, good layers, why not hatch a few chicks? I'll be setting more from them in my next hatch, come on black and blue chickies!

Yeah, I have a side project in mind for mixing my little naked neck bantam hen, Gwenyth, with one of the silkied Cochin roosters. I'd like to eventually get to a silkie-feathered naked neck without all the dominant traits from Silkies like crests, dark skin, etc. But sometimes I feel a bit overwhelmed with breeding the silkied Cochins and trying to get everything right with them, so the thought of adding another project on the side is a bit daunting to me. Hopefully, with more years' experience in breeding the Cochins, I'll feel more confident about that.

...But I'm pretty sure @fluffycrow is going to fly over here to the U.S. to personally kick my butt if I don't hatch at least a few Gwenyth babies this year.

I've wondered how to make a more robust silkie, the TSC silkies seem really healthy, but they are pretty far from the standard.

Yeah, TSC Silkies are... something. Granted, I do like the looks of the silkie-feathered, crestless and beardless, sparsely leg feathered birds that I've seen come out of TSC's Silkie bins sometimes. But those aren't really Silkies, they're... Well, they're something for sure, I'm just not really sure what.

 

[fluffycrow]

...But I'm pretty sure @fluffycrow is going to fly over here to the U.S. to personally kick my butt if I don't hatch at least a few Gwenyth babies this year.

That's correct . There better be at least 5 Gwenyth babies on the ground this year! She is SOOOO pretty, and has waited long enough!

 

[2ndTink]

They sound like a good place to start for working on more robust Silkies!




Yeah, I have a side project in mind for mixing my little naked neck bantam hen, Gwenyth, with one of the silkied Cochin roosters. I'd like to eventually get to a silkie-feathered naked neck without all the dominant traits from Silkies like crests, dark skin, etc. But sometimes I feel a bit overwhelmed with breeding the silkied Cochins and trying to get everything right with them, so the thought of adding another project on the side is a bit daunting to me. Hopefully, with more years' experience in breeding the Cochins, I'll feel more confident about that.

...But I'm pretty sure @fluffycrow is going to fly over here to the U.S. to personally kick my butt if I don't hatch at least a few Gwenyth babies this year.




Yeah, TSC Silkies are... something. Granted, I do like the looks of the silkie-feathered, crestless and beardless, sparsely leg feathered birds that I've seen come out of TSC's Silkie bins sometimes. But those aren't really Silkies, they're... Well, they're something for sure, I'm just not really sure what.

I hear you on trying to keep things reasonable and not take on too much. I usually jump in, then realize I'm way in over my head, but by then I'm too comited to back out I'm trying to just do silkies. I was only going to do blue / black / splash, and now I have those plus chocolate and there's a paint egg incubating, and I need more paints now

It does sound like you need to hatch some Gwenyth eggs!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

That's correct . There better be at least 5 Gwenyth babies on the ground this year! She is SOOOO pretty, and has waited long enough!

5 babies, noted I do really want to hatch some of her babies, just last year got a bit crazy for me and she was half-broodying part of the summer (not laying, but also not fully committing to staying in the nest) so it never ended up happening. This year for sure!

I hear you on trying to keep things reasonable and not take on too much. I usually jump in, then realize I'm way in over my head, but by then I'm too comited to back out I'm trying to just do silkies. I was only going to do blue / black / splash, and now I have those plus chocolate and there's a paint egg incubating, and I need more paints now

It does sound like you need to hatch some Gwenyth eggs!

Haha, yesss! That's why I've been pretty strict with myself about the Cochins, no new colors or projects until I've seen the improvements I'd like to see in my BBS and really solidified them. Because, like, I'd love to see silkied Chocolate Cochins, or silkied Bobtail, or silkied Silver Blue / Lemon Blue, or silkied Columbian, or silkied in large fowl varieties, and someone on my thread for them brought up silkied laced varieties, etc. etc. etc. But also improvement of just one variety (or related set of varieties as is the case with BBS) like I want to achieve with mine pretty much requires hatching a ton of chicks and growing them out to old enough that you can select the very, very best from them to breed and... it's a lot with just the BBS alone! I went into this with the desire to preserve the silkied variety of Cochins and potentially produce birds that could help get it into the standard, so I really need to stay focused on that goal and not a bunch of side projects!



...But don't worry, Fluffy, hatching a few Gwenyth eggs this year shouldn't be too much of a distraction from that.

 

[fluffycrow]

Good . Otherwise I'm bringing the baby advocate along with me. And she doesn't play nice