please critique horse video

[farmchick897]

Just to be clear, she is not being trained under saddle, she is not being worked hard. The trainers are very good, and know that she is just a baby even though she is big and they are very careful not to overdue her sessions or round penning. They have worked with wild mustangs that were so aggressive at first that they would charge the round pen when you were on the other side and try to kick, they have also worked with horses that were so abused that they will never trust someone else. That's why they kept telling me when I couldn't touch her (halter her) to give her time. They said you can always throw a lariat over her and force her but if you start with the basics and work towards it you will always have a horse that wants to work with you. A horse that seeks the answer you are asking. She still has a lot of growing to do and maturing and all I want from her right now is to be able to turn her back out in my 60+ acres and still be able to walk up and halter her, trim her hooves, maybe take her for a walk.

With my other three horses who were raised by me they never had this personality, they always trusted me and why wouldn't they? I feed them and care for them. My one Percheron X mare was a PMU foal that was shipped with 37 other horses in a semi down from Canada. The horses were unloaded in our stockyards and all of them had never been handled excepted to be tagged and loaded. Sure it took some time to gain her trust (by 6 months I could halter and pick up hooves) so I called my farrier who proceeded to tie her leg up throw her to the ground and jump and slap all over her. I was in shock and was being told by his wife that the horse needs this or she will walk all over me when she gets bigger. I was new to horses but I knew this wasn't the answer after they left and I went to touch her and she looked at me with those wild eyes and wouldn't let me pick up her hooves anymore. So I learned to trim hooves and 7 years later she will only let me pick them up and I know this because I had her at another farm and she developed an abcess and the farm owner asked me if I wanted her farrier to look at it. I was over an hour away, so I told her yes. She told me my mare pulled back and busted the halter when the guy approached her and she had to be sedated to even let him touch her.

I just don't understand why my Friesian filly is not coming around. She's scared of me.

Hope you are all having a Merry Christmas!

 

[welsummerchicks]

You sound totally convinced that she's scared of you. Could you consider that maybe possibly it might be something else that's going on? Most problems are solved by just looking at them in a little different way.

Can you describe in a little more detail what happens when you try to work with her?

 

[vmdanielsen]

farmchick,
Would it be possible that this filly's energy does something that makes you feel uncomfortable? She looks pretty normal in the video. At 20 months, with other horses in the background having fun, she seems quite well behaved. Are your other horses quieter? As has been suggested before, she may take a while longer to mature. If she is picking up nervousness from you, she may be reacting differently when you work with her then when someone else works her. Anyway, it is just a thought.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I agree, that's what I was thinking of. If the person is scared and nervous, the horse will act the same way.

 

[Kit]

she looks like she's moving nicely to me - as far as you not being able to approach her - and I speak from experience - many errors on my part -She may be more sensitive, and may perceive your requests/movements as threatening (been there, done that)Maybe you can try backing off, just using the tiniest command to get her to move - you can always up the pressure if you need to - gradually - but once you've pressed her too hard, she's going to be frightened and hard to get to trust you. Sounds like she's got that tendency, if she's been that way from day 1 - and you also may just be more used to the older, more laid back guys. Also, can you get the trainer to watch you work her - he may see something you're doing. And now I'm going to go way out - a lot of mainstream people will freak at this - but it has worked for me when all else has failed - Clicker Training - there are a number of books and videos out there - Andrea Kurland has a great, step-by-step one that is like a cookbook. People object to this method because they say it makes the horse snappy, and dependent on treats - if you do it right - it's not a problem - one of the first thing you teach them is "manners" - they learn very quickly and RETAIN - I have an old gelding I used the clicker with over 5 yrs ago - had not done it with him for all that time - pulled out the clicker and it was like yesterday - he's in his late 20's. Good luck - I know how discouraging it can be!! (I'm also surprised at how many horse people are out there on a chicken forum!!I guess critter lovers are critter lovers!!)

 

[Kit]

PS- ALWAYS go with your gut and heart when it comes to your horse - don't EVER let anyone else tell you what your horse needs, etc, and let them proceed to manhandle your horse - been there, done that too - took me forever to get my mare to let me handle her feet again after one of those episodes. There are way too many "experts" out there who just want to dominate and make the horse do - it may work for them, and the horse may obey out of fear or submission, but I suspect that's not the type of relationship you want with your horse. Of course, your safety must always be foremost, so you can't tolerate dangerous or aggressive behavior either. Congrats on trimming your own feet - me too!

 

[Kit]

OK, I'm getting on my soapbox here - sorry - but I feel strongly about it - I've come to believe that the round-pen stuff is not for every horse - and that may be because of my own errors - but try the clicker method - in no time you should be able to do all the ground stuff you want to do with the girl - once she realizes she gets a reward for every little try - she'll be very eager to work with you. And I agree with some of the others - she was very attentive to you, even with the other horses being crazy in the backround. I would suggest that you try the clicker, if that's how you go, kinda on the sly - as i said, there are too many self proclaimed experts who will want to tell you how wrong you're doing things - if your horse comes around, and you are able to handle her the way you want - what does it matter how you got there. BIG suggestion - just don't get too eager and take shortcuts, or try to move too fast - take baby steps with her - it will move along plenty fast - you'll be encouraged. Again, don't be discouraged - sounds like you've done a great job with all your others - but there's always one out there who challenges us and makes us feel like like we don't know anything! Good luck - explore options and alternatives - keep an open mind and don't let others dissuade you.

 

[farmchick897]

Bella is not mean or dangerous, unless by accident you happen to be in the way while she is trying to get away. I was trying to get her vaccinations and Coggins pulled before the trainers picked her up and got her into a 30 X 24 area, couldn't get a halter on and she was getting very nervous with the vet and me both trying to get a rope around her neck. Not once did she try to kick or pin her ears back, I went up behind her many times in feeding and all situations, she is a runner not a fighter. She approaches, she is happy to accept food from your hand, she is more confident if you are behind a gate or fence, but if I reach out to touch her.. even if I manage to pet her, her body is stiff, she is ready to flee, her skin prickles like a fly is on it. If I make any fast movements, weird noises, she is gone. Note, if I pet her behind the fence she is less tense. In the 1st video, if I approached with my hand out she was tense, ready for flight. If I approached with my back to her, hands by my side, she allowed me all the way to her, she sniffed me, she snorted, but she stood. The second I turned or moved my hand she was gone. The trainer did say she was full of it because we had a severe ice storm and that round pen was all ice and she was kept up in a stall the whole week. You can tell the wind is blowing too and it's cold. The mustang on the other side of the panels was running around being a nut too.
As a note.. she has never been stalled or confined at my place and she has never been without the herd.
Do you think Bella's behavior can be changed? or is she always going to be more sensitive and spooky? because that type of behavior might make a fine arena horse but doesn't make a good trail horse. I have 500 acres of riding woods and things jump out in the trail, deer especially. I'm just not sure if keeping her until the age of 3-4 and then finding out she still doesn't make a good trail horse is the way to go or I should sell her and find myself what I'm looking for.

 

[welsummerchicks]

"Do you think Bella's behavior can be changed"

Change the animals behavior by changing your behavior.

Spend time with her, quiet, undemanding time. Stroke her neck, and talk to her, feed her carrots out of a feed tub that you hold, and talk to her in a quiet, gentle way.

Take her for walks to where there is some grass, and spend a lot of time letting her just eat grass.

Plan to spend about an hour a day, getting familiar with each other and becoming trusted friends. Not training - no training - training can't take place until the two of you are friends. No clucking, not a lot of talking, keep your hands quiet and still.

Nervous horses are made tense by all the talking - it seems you talkk a lot - don't. Every time you say something, they are wondering, 'Oh no, I need to do something, but what, I don't know what I'm supposed to do, oh no'.

So don't say, 'hi girl, here girl, hey here girl', and stop doing all the noises - clucking, chirping, don't do any of it. Say her name, 'Bella' and hold out your hand with a treat and don't move a single muscle - just let her come and take it from you.

Don't ever chase her to bring her in from the pasture. Don't believe anyone who tells you, you need to 'make her know who's boss' or that she has an 'attitude'. She does not, she''s just a different type of horse.

Keep your body language quiet, calm and self assured. If you are making little nervous motions, turning this way and that, making little jerking motions in different directions, starting to go off in one direction and changing your mind and going off in another, retool your body language, to make slow, even, steady movements that are easy to read and understand.

Be who she needs you to be.

 

[vmdanielsen]

I agree with Wellsummerchicks and your filly already "knows who is boss". Her only "training" is to be with you in a calm, quiet, safe environment. Only ask her to do what she can do. Don't ask anything new. She needs to be able to say "yes" to every thing you ask. I think, if you can learn to accept her "more highly- strungness", you will find that you have a very willing partner. Spend time her. The question you have to ask yourself is.......Do you want a horse that is this sensitive? Is her personality one that YOU want to work with. I have a very highly strung thoroughbred. If a deer jumps out in front of us on a trail, he knows that it has been there long before I did. Ask yourself, will you be too nervous and more reactive and "expecting" a big spook? Only you can decide if this is a horse you can keep and put time and money into. She looks like a fine girl to me. Keep your spirits up and go slow!!