Please Help Me! Glendale AZ

[luckitri]

Phew! Finally able to log in!

Nope neighbor. Can't keep 'em.

Interesting information I did get though. The people north of me (north of Greenway) with the acreage also did not have permission to have chickens and it was recently changed to allow it.

Meanwhile, the city is in the process of revising their codes/ordinances since this has not been done since 1993. They left all the chicken codes alone because they say that they had no idea that anyone was interested. The process is not finished and I need to decide if I want to and am able to take this on. We need to have bodies show up to council meetings and have petitions of people stating that they would like to keep chickens.

I need to find out how to make an on-line petition that will give the signers general whereabouts without giving the city a revenue generating list of people trying to keep chickens under the radar.

I have to get rid of the chickens by Tuesday and last weekend I just was not ready to part with them. My first pick is not answering her phone anymore or responding to e-mail - maybe she went on vacation or something. So basically I have today and tomorrow to get rid of them because suddenly Monday got booked up with doctor appointments and she lives out in Queen Creek. Ack!

I had plenty of other respondents but she was first and best so now I am in a pinch because I don't want her to call me Sunday night and I picked someone else on the list.

It is so amazing how many different ideas people have. This a.m. I was out front pulling a handful of weeds for the babies to eat and a block watch lady came by. She kept talking so after awhile I did mention it and she had thought that it was legal to have 3 in our neighborhood.

I really try to keep my son involved with animals because he is not good at school but very good and intuitive with animals. His friend came over yesterday when it was time to put the babies in their box for the night. (Their sleeping quarters never got finished once we got cited.) They cry to go in the box - they know when it is time. Anyways his friend is a rough punk ready for anything kind of guy but he could not cope with holding a chicken! It was the funniest thing and he got teased alot and finally he did hold the last one. Anyways, this is one family project that is being killed by the city.

 

[vermontgal]

If you look at your city's definition of "household pet" - chickens meet that definition. If you look at your city's definition of "livestock" - chickens are not mentioned there.

I researched your codes more last weekend, and wrote up a suggested official-sounding letter for you, but then accidentally closed my computer window before I pressed "submit".

If you wrote an official letter to your city pointing out how chickens meet the definition of household pet, and also referencing your zoning (which allows household pets), then I think that you might show them that chickens are permitted.

Glendale definition from your zoning ordinance:
Household Pets: Small animals which are customarily kept as household pets or which are generally trainable and readily adaptable to urban residences. Household pets may include small domestic animals as well as other nontraditional pets and exotic animals.

I believe chickens meet this definition:
Chickens are small domestic animals that are very trainable and in fact are used to teach dog trainers how to do clicker training (google chicken training video - if you don't think chickens are trainable, this will change your mind). It does not say that they must be adaptable to living INSIDE urban residences, although some people do keep chickens inside the house. Chickens are certainly readily adaptable to urban living, and are kept in cities worldwide and in the United States. PET chickens in particular are legal in cities including very urban cities such as Chicago, Pittsburgh, and New York City. Those cities are more urban than Glendale. The ordinance also seeks to include "nontraditional pets". I don't see anything whatsoever in this definition of household pets that would exclude chickens.

I would write a letter that includes the above, but more formally stated (and in your own words).

In such a letter I would also politely ask them to please cite to you the specific language of the ordinance that makes them think that chickens are not permitted in your zoning.

If you are attached to your chickens in particular, maybe someone could "foster them" until maybe you can get permission to bring them back?
Good luck.

 

[luckitri]

Yes I have cried alot lately over those chickens. The 5 who are due to start laying in a few weeks have been re-homed but once I got to the address - well let us say that I have a strong idea that they are not allowed in that area either but we shall see. Hopefully if their new owner gets busted I will have succeeded with our city by then.

The other two will be re-homed tomorrow to someone much closer to me who is allowed to have them. She has many bantams so my banty will no longer be picked on due to her size I hope. Her companion, a full-size Ameracauna actually Easter Egger is used to being Queen of the Yard so it will take some adjusting. Those banties are fierce. I put Lil Bit in front of the bathroom mirror once and she really put on a show of hostility for that chicken in the mirror.

When I brought the Buffy the orpington into the front yard to go - all of her feathers started sticking straight out. She knew a big change was coming but they behaved really really well for the trip and into their new accomodations. The new owners wife brought them alfalfa sprouts from her fridge to hand feed them in their new pen. That really helped me get over it.

I would like to start an on-line petition and advertise it on Craigslist as well as at the local feed stores. I do not care to create a citation revenue generating list for the city so I am hoping that if the signees just put their phone number and first name and their general location by cross streets - that will suffice. My concern is does the city have the ability to trace the exact address from the phone number? Does anybody know that? Or if they just give an e-mail addy or cell-phone number?

Thanks for the help Vermontgal. The city feels totally OK fining people even though most ignoramuses like myself would read it the same way - no mention - must be OK. I do not have the financial resources to fork over my entire monthly household income for their fine - which was part of the reason I diverted from my food budget to get the babies anyways. (To be fair, that huge fine only comes after persistent refusal to divest oneself of the chickens after receiving smaller fines.)
As far as formal writing goes - don't know much about it - you are probably reading it. Hee hee.

But I will find that link for chicken diapers and print that out for when I go to council meetings. And I don't know what I was collecting all the feathers for but I am thinking about getting a cheap shirt and glueing them all on there for when I go to their meetings.

This is scary for me and the last time I got before a group of city people they jumped on me, shut me up, and disposed of me. They made great show of attempting to help me behind closed doors but nothing good ever came of it.

Also there is another very strange thing. The Chicanos Por La Causa told my husband that they won the right for illegals to keep their fighting cocks at their residences based on cultural heritage but the city flatly denies it. The lady from Chicanos who bragged to mi esposa is not returning his phone calls so so so . . . . . whatever. We qualify for their help and they might win alot of acceptance if they would take this one on - I have had calls from many foreign born with thick accents from all over the planet who do not feel so safe to call the city. If Chicanos would take this one on for the people they might not be perceived as such a prejudiced organization by those of us who try to be fair and multi-cultural according to what is right, not according to a political philosophy but more in light of what our ancestors suffered when we came here. (Ancestors who, I might add, desired strongly to become American, to assimilate and kissed the ground when they got off the boat). Prejudice is not overcome with more prejudice.

In other words, when I found out that our local Friendly House, whose description read that they help immigrants become legal, would not help my Bosnian refugee friend because she was not Hispanic - well they did not get any more of my United Way dollars. If they begin to re-word their information to accurately portray that they only help Hispanic speaking I may reconsider but I doubt it. Some of these organizations would do well to expand their parameters on occasion. We are tired of the prejudice and might does not make right, it just leaves alot of simmering, seething resentment, especially when they have solicited your funds under false pretenses.

OK I am off the soapbox. I do not mean to offend anyone and if I am an ignoramus please tell me so kindly.

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

I'm so sorry the city didn't let you keep any of them, even as pets.

As for the phone number question - yes, you can find someone's home address by googling their home phone number on the internet.

 

[poltroon]

Make sure that when you go to the meetings, that you are as calm and organized and friendly as you can be. No funny costumes, tempting as it might be. They are your pets, you just want to be able to have birds as pets just as other people like having birds. I would use the word "bird" rather than "chicken" when possible, and think parrot a lot.

Also, if you get them back, and you have fly control issues, I suggest trying "fly predators" which can be purchased from Spaulding Labs and other places. They are little tiny bugs that eat fly larvae, and they work well.

 

[luckitri]

Hi again neighbor!

I just tried googling my own phone number and it said "does not match any documents". Maybe there is a certain website that people use to do this? Any advisement on how to collect petitioners and keep track of them? I will have to just have their first name and the general block that they live on and keep their phone numbers and e-mail addys to myself?

poltroon , thanks for telling me about "fly predators". We have lots of small farms close by and there are always lots of flies. I was not so impressed with the "bug juice" but since it has been incredibly hot this winter I will give it another try and see if I actually catch any this time.

 

[luckitri]

Oh, I just rehomed my last two - to the lady that lives close to me. I think that I really really like animal lovers more than other folk. I can buy eggs from her. She has a little sign by her mailbox. She has a lovely place and loves all kinds of critters just like me - only better because she has horses! My husband wished that I had given them all to her but I wanted to spread them out because the new owners are all unknown to me. This lady has lots of pens and even has a huge evap cooler unit in the midst of them all for heat relief. She wisely is isolating my hens from hers until they have time to adapt and she is sure that they are healthy. My girls knew what was going on and made themselves difficult to catch but this lady has lots of banty roos that are gorgeous and I know Lil Bit will be a mom soon. Henrietta is going to have to adapt to not being Queen of the Yard anymore but this lady has other Ameracaunas, Frizzles, Polish, Laces, English and names I never heard of before - OMG! -All kinds!

The other new owner has kindly e-mailed me every day as to their progress. He had to re-trim their flight feathers because his set-up that he built so far was not high enough to contain them yet. In other words their roost and nest box at my place was as high as the top of his run. (I was trying to create a chicken playground inside the pens for exercise and intelligence.) I have seen lots of chicken runs that are only a few feet high - seems more common than not. He has an intriguing 3 floor little coop that he built out of recycled materials with stairs to go to each floor. Both of the owners who have taken my babies are great people and I have confidence that my babies will be well cared for. Phew!

 

[ArizonaDesertChicks]

Quote:
I tried it with my phone number and it did pull up my address. I used the regular google search engine - put quotes around my number - example: "602-123-1234" hit search and it showed me my husband's name, my name, & our address plus a link to map it.

It may not work on unlisted phone numbers - ours is in the phone book.

I have no idea about the petition - no experience in that area.

 

[luckitri]

Hmmmm. I don't know anybody that has a home phone that is listed. The city, however, has to have every number even unlisted for police and fire response I believe and I do not know if it would be difficult for them to divert from those purposes to get addresses corresponding to phone numbers. Hopefully someone wiser than I will contribute their knowledge.

 

[luckitri]

It would have been admirable for me to fight but I just don't have it in me - so I thought about it alot and the exchanges with the top person at the city made it clear that there was no way they would consider a change. I have been in and out of the hospital twice as has another family member and we are physically impaired and just don't have that much fight in us. Although my 14 year old has learnt of other backyard flocks on our block and he is mad about it as are his friends who helped with the chickens a bit.

Meanwhile I must say that the two people I re-homed my babies to are great! The one lady is within walking distance of me and I re-homed my free-range Ameracauna's to her. One was a bantam and she has a gazillion beautiful banty roos so I thought surely "Lil Bit" would be sitting on a clutch of eggs by now - but nope - she sticks by Henrietta who is full size and used to being queen of the yard - a real bossy b - - - - who would even take on my alpha dog at a moment's notice! Henrietta has had to learn to share the best nests with other birds - if she wants the best nests she has to wait in line to lay. This is a drastic learning curve for them. So far they are just sticking to the coop area even though they have access to a huge yard and even an area with horses if they like. When I first went to visit Little Bit opened her mouth wide in shock to see me and dropped her head and just gaped. (It had been quite awhile.) This lady sells eggs to the public so now I am her public and of course I don't care if they are banty eggs although adapting them to recipes can be a bit iffy.

The other owner is great too and he pulls their chicken tractor to a new spot every so often to fertilize the ground as he gardens. They are used to being penned so they just get a change of ground every so often and he and his wife even buy greens to hand feed them - isn't that sweet? They have a triple-decker coop that is very open air that he built for them - very interesting.