Political Ramblings

[MamaRoo]

Quote: Very well. There are housing projects in Seattle that allow the residents to drink provided they stay within the rules of the house (no passing out in the common areas, etc). The desk will even keep your alcohol for you if you are trying to limit yourself. Men that get in work very hard at not being kicked out. Men are referred there from the county hospital, and the county saves thousands of dollars in medical expenses by provided a safe environment for the men to drink. So far there is only men's housing, but I don't think female drug/alcohol abusers live very long on the streets.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/...-alcoholism-drink-less-when-booze-is-allowed/

Sorry, I should have said "saved millions of dollars"
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Study-Seattle-home-for-alcoholics-saved-1302953.php

 

[hemet dennis]

Very well. There are housing projects in Seattle that allow the residents to drink provided they stay within the rules of the house (no passing out in the common areas, etc). The desk will even keep your alcohol for you if you are trying to limit yourself. Men that get in work very hard at not being kicked out. Men are referred there from the county hospital, and the county saves thousands of dollars in medical expenses by provided a safe environment for the men to drink. So far there is only men's housing, but I don't think female drug/alcohol abusers live very long on the streets.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/...-alcoholism-drink-less-when-booze-is-allowed/

Sorry, I should have said "saved millions of dollars"
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Study-Seattle-home-for-alcoholics-saved-1302953.php

Well they spent $4 million on less then 100 people. And then said they saved another $4 million. How did they save the $4 million ? Did they cut back on a couple of doctors ? Did they cut back on some jail guards ?

 

[RHRanch]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/11/23/mental-health-homeless-in-home.html

http://www.schizophrenia.com/housing.html

 

[bunnibird55]

Ok, I have been lurking and want to tell you about a 20 year old girl who was living with her drug addict boyfriend, they had a child and got the free medical care for her and the baby. They got welfare. They got WIC. They hit every church in our county on a rotation basis to get their utilities paid. They got free food and aid and were not doing without. She got a chance to work where I do on an intern basis. All she had to do was to "keep clean". No more drugs. They couldn't do even that simple move. They were raided and had a marijuana growing system in their house - with a baby. She lost her job because of the conviction. Then she became pregnant again and recieved more aid and told me that the more children she could have, the more aid she could recieve. If they could grow marijuana, they could have grown vegetables. The last time I talked to her, she was quite happy living off the system and has no intention of getting a job. She is quite proud of knowing where to get free food, free utilities, free clothing, free health care. There are millions of people with this attitude. Those are the people I have a problem with pumping in more tax dollars to keep them in that life style. There has to be a way of educating them and making them become responsible citizens. I agree, it is a vicious cycle and these are the people who are mooching. She is not mentally handicapped. She is actually smart but sees the freebies as the only way to live. These are the kind of people who are taking advantage of the rest of us hardworking stiffs. How do we get through to these people???

 

[RHRanch]

Ok, I have been lurking and want to tell you about a 20 year old girl who was living with her drug addict boyfriend, they had a child and got the free medical care for her and the baby. They got welfare. They got WIC. They hit every church in our county on a rotation basis to get their utilities paid. They got free food and aid and were not doing without. She got a chance to work where I do on an intern basis. All she had to do was to "keep clean". No more drugs. They couldn't do even that simple move. They were raided and had a marijuana growing system in their house - with a baby. She lost her job because of the conviction. Then she became pregnant again and recieved more aid and told me that the more children she could have, the more aid she could recieve. If they could grow marijuana, they could have grown vegetables. The last time I talked to her, she was quite happy living off the system and has no intention of getting a job. She is quite proud of knowing where to get free food, free utilities, free clothing, free health care. There are millions of people with this attitude. Those are the people I have a problem with pumping in more tax dollars to keep them in that life style. There has to be a way of educating them and making them become responsible citizens. I agree, it is a vicious cycle and these are the people who are mooching. She is not mentally handicapped. She is actually smart but sees the freebies as the only way to live. These are the kind of people who are taking advantage of the rest of us hardworking stiffs. How do we get through to these people???

What is your point, you think because you know some people who have taken advantage of the system that naturally all of them are doing it? Or is it that no one should get help because some will abuse it?

 

[rufus]

True, there are some people that really use the system, but at the same time there are folks that really need the system. Eventually, it will become unsustainable, and we will have to make some real hard choices. I am glad I am not in that position. So many people have become dependent on the system, and I am afraid when that time comes that choices will be made more on politics and not on true need. Time will tell.

I see where Bimbo, the Mexican baking company is looking to pick up the brand names of Hostess Baking. I am pretty sure they will not be baking those products in the US. Those union bakers are just out of luck.

I had figured Gamesa would have bought those brands, but I guess they have problems of their own. They do good in Latin America and the Philippines, but Spain is another story.

 

[hemet dennis]

What is your point, you think because you know some people who have taken advantage of the system that naturally all of them are doing it? Or is it that no one should get help because some will abuse it?

OK once again no one is saying that no one needs help. But there are a lot of people that use the system instead of working.

How long should someone get help ? 6 months, a year, 5years, 10 years, forever ?

 

[newfoundland]

To understand the origins of categorising the 'poor' you need to go back in time to the Elizabethen England of the 1580s. Here the poor, with no visible means of support were beggars, since they were obliged to beg for alms. There were several categories of poor but most notable the 'sturdy beggar', who was viewed as an itinerant layabout roaming from village to village sponging off others, and the 'deserving poor'. This might be the widow with her little brood of starving children or the elderly person, spent by a lifetime of work. No prizes for guessing who was chased from the village and who was supported by 'poor relief'. Trouble is the world has moved on and our attitudes haven't. We don't look for the deeper reasons of poverty, such as lack of opportunity and lack of expectation. How fare the 'Huddled masses' who had such high hopes now?

 

[bakerjw]

OK once again no one is saying that no one needs help. But there are a lot of people that use the system instead of working.

How long should someone get help ? 6 months, a year, 5years, 10 years, forever ?

As I've said before, I am all for helping people who can use the help. But... when my wife and I lived in poverty, we'd regularly observe fancy luxury cars pulling up to our local grocery store where the occupants, dressed in much finer clothes that we could afford, would get out and do their shopping. The kicker? They'd pay with food stamps. I also remember when check day rolled around at the local welfare office. If you were driving past, you'd observe some of the finest luxury cars that you'd ever seen. The whole point of the consternation that many of us feel is that we work very hard to get ahead and there is a broad segment of society, and it's not just a few here and there, that know how to use and abuse the system.

And as for street people. Our church was in the downtown area where we used to live. They fed and helped homeless people all the time. Some of them panhandled around the church, but mostly they didn't want to get in trouble for hassling the parishioners. Many of them were mentally ill, alcoholics, or drug addicts. There were many programs to help them if they desired to get clean but again, you can't force someone to do something that they don't want to do. And we did have some that enjoyed their lifestyle. Look at http://www.willieyork.com/ for one example.

 

[bunnibird55]

See... I am not saying there are not legitimate needs for help. I am just saying that when you see several people who are able bodied and are so taking advantage of the "free" help- our dollars that are given in good faith - it makes me very angry. The girl I have referred to is not the only one I have worked with - just one of the most blatant. She always said her mom had always been on aid, her siblings were all on aid. Working the system is all she knows and she thinks it is perfectly all right. If I am seeing a whole extended family in my small neck-of-the-woods, I can only imagine how that is magnified across the country. Yes it makes me mad that I have to scrimp even though my husband and I are responsible and work hard and someone like this girl and her family can keep expecting everyone to take care of them. My own daughter and her husband lost their house to foreclosure when my daughter had serious medical problems that her insurance did not cover only half of the expenses. With three children, my daughter was not even able to get any assistance because they made $60 a month too much to qualify for any help. Of course I helped them and I didn't mind. My daughter has pulled herself up and has taken a low waged job and is working overtime to help get themselves pulled up again. Why can't this other girl and many like her do the responsible thing and WORK instead of expecting everyone to do it for them??????