Political Ramblings

[MamaRoo]

Quote: Sadly, it's not really a choice. Once drugs/alcohol take hold of someone's body, they really aren't capable of stopping them without some intervention. If you've been clean for five years (or so) and THEN pick up a bottle, yes, that moment is a choice. After that you're back in the grips of the disease.

 

[MamaRoo]

Now that I think about it, I was once actually homeless for a little over a year. My home in Miami suffered a bit of damage from hurricane Andrew and I stayed in our corporate suite at the Waldorf and I must say that it was quite comfortable.

Stayed in my brother's guest room for a while. That was pretty good, but I had to do the dishes.

 

[chickened]

Homelessness and being poor are not always bedfellows, many of the homeless youth in inner city Portland have a home with their parents but choose to be homeless in lieu of following a few simple rules. Most people with mental illnesses are getting adequate care. Some people just like the homeless life... ask them... studies are only as reliable as the answers people give and most drug and alcohol related homeless people I have met do not participate in studies. Those that are homeless due to financial pitfalls usually are not homeless for long.

 

[MamaRoo]

Most people with mental illnesses are getting adequate care.

This whole concept has always fascinated me. If you are who you are, and happy with it, and someone comes along and tells you that who you are is not good, and gives you a pill to take that turns you into someone else, how willing would you be to keep taking that pill?

This is hypothetical, because I'm not in the brain of someone with a mental illness, but the idea really confounds me when I try to imagine it from the other person's point of view.

There's a great movie that touches on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Through_a_Glass_Darkly_(film)

 

[mom'sfolly]

Actually that 80% is the figure from 1996, current figures for "chronic substance abuse" are much lower. I don't think being an alcoholic is a choice, nor is being an addict. As the child of someone who died from the disease, I know that it isn't a choice.

Many of the homeless are mentally ill, many of the young homeless are LGBT (their loving families throw them out), and many are disabled. Most people don't choose to be homeless.

 

[mom'sfolly]

ChickenEd, you are wrong on mental illness. We've been over this ground before, so I'm not going there. Many of the mentally ill are not adequately treated, many insurance companies cover very little mental health care, and getting help for some one who doesn't see themselves as ill is nearly impossible.

 

[RHRanch]

The statistic (which is not recent, I agree but I think the factsheet gives a good breakdown of the causes of homelessness) is that of those who are chronically homeless 80% substance abusers and 60% mentally ill. Obviously there is overlap, so amongst the drug users are mentally ill people. So we have co-morbidity of conditions - and according to the DSM substance addiction/dependance is itself a form of mental illness. Once a person is addicted to a substance, whether you think it's an illness or not, they are no longer operating with a properly functioning brain. Beyond that, even if a drug dependent person wants to stop using, it requires the help of professionals and a support system in order for them to do so. Labeling people with mental illness, substance abuse problems or who are poor as : Lazy, bad, weak, or choosing their situation is just a good way for people and society to avoid helping people who have been disadvantaged by birth or circumstance.

 

[hemet dennis]

The statistic (which is not recent, I agree but I think the factsheet gives a good breakdown of the causes of homelessness) is that of those who are chronically homeless 80% substance abusers and 60% mentally ill. Obviously there is overlap, so amongst the drug users are mentally ill people. So we have co-morbidity of conditions - and according to the DSM substance addiction/dependance is itself a form of mental illness. Once a person is addicted to a substance, whether you think it's an illness or not, they are no longer operating with a properly functioning brain. Beyond that, even if a drug dependent person wants to stop using, it requires the help of professionals and a support system in order for them to do so. Labeling people with mental illness, substance abuse problems or who are poor as : Lazy, bad, weak, or choosing their situation is just a good way for people and society to avoid helping people who have been disadvantaged by birth or circumstance.

So your solution to most of the homelessness would be to lock them up somewhere that they cant leave ? Because there's programs that they could get in to and probably most have tried them and chose to leave.

 

[RHRanch]

So your solution to most of the homelessness would be to lock them up somewhere that they cant leave ? Because there's programs that they could get in to and probably most have tried them and chose to leave.

Actually, there has been plenty of research into what kinds of things work and what does not for the treatment of the mentally ill. Since de-institutionalization, hospitals and prisons have had to try to fill the void left by mental institutions. While many abuses happened in mental institutions, they did provide a place for non-functioning mentally ill people to live or to become stable. now hospitals can only keep people about 48-72 hours. So a lot of mentally ill people go to prison and live on the streets. One of the things that does work (mostly seen in Canada), are group housing where mentally ill people live in a home with a small staff that makes sure that they stay on track, take their medicine, do their personal hygiene and even go to work in the case of those whose meds work well. The reason we don't have much of that here is that there is almost no funding for it. Prison and homelessness will continue to be the only option until society acknowledges that we have some responsibility to those who cannot care for themselves: the disabled (mentally and physically), children, the elderly and those living in poverty. I have no idea where you got the idea that I was advocating locking up homeless people and the mentally ill, though.... We do lock them up - prisons are the new institutions for the mentally ill. I do think that my position was that people like you look for ways to label these people as bad somehow so you can go on your merry way and ignore the problem.

here's a link to an interesting program that i am certain that you will ignore or only watch excerpts from: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/asylums/view/

 

[hemet dennis]

Actually, there has been plenty of research into what kinds of things work and what does not for the treatment of the mentally ill. Since de-institutionalization, hospitals and prisons have had to try to fill the void left by mental institutions. While many abuses happened in mental institutions, they did provide a place for non-functioning mentally ill people to live or to become stable. now hospitals can only keep people about 48-72 hours. So a lot of mentally ill people go to prison and live on the streets. One of the things that does work (mostly seen in Canada), are group housing where mentally ill people live in a home with a small staff that makes sure that they stay on track, take their medicine, do their personal hygiene and even go to work in the case of those whose meds work well. The reason we don't have much of that here is that there is almost no funding for it. Prison and homelessness will continue to be the only option until society acknowledges that we have some responsibility to those who cannot care for themselves: the disabled (mentally and physically), children, the elderly and those living in poverty.

But remember the most of the homeless is the "• Over 80% have experienced lifetime alcohol and/or drug problems". Now how well do they do in a group housing setting ?