Possibly An Internal Layer *GRAPHIC PICS*

[casportpony]

So I guess it’s safe to say I should wait until my birds are feathered out before worming them.

I think you should go ahead and have a fecal done and treat according to what is found.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

A shame you didn't get a few pictures of one of your moulting hens laying an egg. You could have helped put another stupid piece of common knowledge in it s grave.
I do mention on occasions that moulting has absolutely no biological connection to egg laying but...

Interesting, Shad. Can you expound on this? Why is it that they coincide (or seem to)?

 

[Shadrach]

Interesting, Shad. Can you expound on this? Why is it that they coincide (or seem to)?

I don't know Meg. I read a couple of studies from Nottingham Uni a few years ago that dealt with the subject and they didn't have an answer, then watched what happened here.
I'm not sure if anyone knows but a bit of flock watching makes it apparent nonsense because some hens moult at other times of the year and lay eggs at the same time.
It has been unusual to get a heavy moult and still lay eggs here but it happens.
As the hens here get older the moulting becomes less sever. I've got a couple of junior hens moulting now and they are so wretched. The most senior (7 to 10 year olds) are moulting but it's been gradual.

 

[Shadrach]

Right, I've crashed your thread I'm afraid. Good luck in the competition and with the rest of your flock.

 

[Mimi13]

Right, I've crashed your thread I'm afraid. Good luck in the competition and with the rest of your flock.

Crash away, no worries here. I’m here to learn.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

Thank you very much. I will have to give my Biscuit and Butter gig you can tell I like food, huh?) a lot of credit. They were two out of my first four that have let me do anything with them. I have poked, pulled, picked and prodded on them since day 1, without any objection from them. They allowed me to learn an awful lot about chickens. I knew nothing to begin with. Well, I also have to give credit to BYC. With this forum and my two Buff Orpingtons, I’d still be chicken ignorant!

We always have much to learn. I do appreciate the necropsy photos, especially. I haven't done it, nor have I butchered, but I would like to do both in the future.

 

[Mimi13]

We always have much to learn. I do appreciate the necropsy photos, especially. I haven't done it, nor have I butchered, but I would like to do both in the future.

You will be able to when the time comes I’m certain. I will say though, there is a difference between processing excess cockerels and euthanizing a special bird, even though I go through the same motions with each.

As I have said in prior posts, I had never personally taken the life of anything before I slaughtered an aggressive cockerel (which my family ate) so that was a new feeling I had to overcome. My main concern has always been, with any of the birds I’ve slaughtered/euthanized (basically killed), to make certain it is a quick and clean kill. I want no part of suffering, especially for my special birds.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Good morning all~

Yesterday was the day I had been dreading for some time. It was the day Butter let me know she was ready, even though I wasn’t. I know this post will be long and I apologize, however it is also somewhat cathartic for me. Also, I hope to shed light as to what caused her demise and hope for some answers on such, so I’m calling on the experts to help. @azygous @coach723 @rebrascora @Texas Kiki @Wyorp Rock Y’all asked for pictures...so, I’m delivering.

For the past week Butter had not been able to get herself down off the roost/poop board and she had not left the run to venture out with the rest of the birds. This was the biggest sign I was looking for. She always stayed with her BFF’s, always!

I had wanted my son to euthanize her for me, but then I thought, nope, it’s something I’ve got to do, just me and my girl. It wasn’t easy, not even the thought of it as I got everything set up around on the other side of the house. I kept noticing myself sighing out loud, something I’m not aware of normally doing. I chose a spot away from all my other birds. This was something I didn’t want them to be around for. Butter had just finished her version of a dust bath - fat bellied girl style - so she was happy. I shook my canister of 5 grain scratch and they all came running. Butter slowly made her way out of the run. I spread a few fistfuls of scratch to keep all of them occupied while Butter and I slipped off. After I let her peck around a bit, I picked her up and we started walking toward the house, me talking to her and her talking to me with her sweet Buff Orpington coos.

I wrapped her in my towel and sat down. I asked the Lord to please make this quick and easy...for both of us. My prayer was granted and she was no longer suffering, but I was. I sat there for several minutes gaining my composure. I loved that little girl.

After a bit I put on my scientist face as I knew I had to find out what I had been wondering and speculating for a while now. Would I be correct or completely amiss?

Since she had begun molting, a lot of her feather shafts on her extremely tight abdomen were coming back ingrown. This was another reason something had to be done fairly quickly. I did lance the first one I found and unfurled the feather, but more and more were popping up. This had to be painful for her.

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I was curious to see her abdomen in relation to the rest of her body so I plucked what few feathers were there. Her belly was huge. She looked 9 months pregnant. Now remember, she was HARD as a rock, not squishy at all.

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Because of her extra large belly, I did not open her cavity like I normally would the birds I process, opting to go in right under her keel. Her belly was so tight, under such pressure, I made the cut very carefully.

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I thought I was videoing the actual cut, but I messed it up. I didn’t hit the record button until I tapped it to stop, which then began me recording setting the phone down! Gah! But I did get this clip.

Oh my dear Lord, Butter had been suffering from Ascites. If only I had known.

The placement of her organs looked differently to me. I don’t know if it was because of the higher cut or if it was the humongous bag of fluid. I still do not know what the bag was, but it was a completely enclosed bag filled with the tell-tale sign of amber colored, odorless fluid. The fluid was not around her organs at all. Most of the organs were underneath this bag. But I did notice the duodenum was laying on top of the bag (as viewed when I opened her), so it would have actually been underneath it while all the remaining intestines/organs were on top of the bag.

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Also, on the inside of the bag was a spot of tougher “membrane.” It was thicker and darker in that one spot. The spot would have been on the lowest side of the bag. (A darker spot can be seen in the picture of her body shot.) This is a picture of the area inside the bag.

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This bird had no fat in her body cavity, none at all, although there was a small amount around her heart. However, I did notice in several places a yellowing on a portion of the abdominal muscle just under the keel and then again on the gizzard and in between the gizzard and stomach, which seemed very small or empty to me.
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Once the fluid had completely drained and the bag set aside I could see the rest of the organs. I thought her liver looked good, not discolored or tumorous, as I would have expected with ascites. Isn’t a liver disease associated with ascites? This also is a good view of the bag that held the fluid, all emptied and folded up below. But in this picture I noticed something else alarming. I’m certain experienced eyes will pick it right up, but I will discuss it later.

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Here is a picture of her heart. Is this amount of fat on it considered detrimental?

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Her eggs are completely immature, which I guess is what is expected at this time of year, but Butter has not laid an egg in almost two years now. However, remember I was expecting to open her up to a yolk filled cavity. Not so. Anyway, this one picture leaves me with many, many questions. Zoom in on these areas.

First, to the upper right off the eggs the cavity shows to have brown speckles, which is also scattered throughout the rest of the cavity on all the visceral membrane.

Then, right below the eggs is something that looks wormlike in the picture. There were no worms in the body cavity that I saw.

And then right below to the right of the wormlike stuff is something that looks like a ladder. It reminds me of a small cartilage-like structure like the trachea. I have no idea what this is and did not even notice it when I had her open. I only noticed it in this picture. Any clues?

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Now to the unexpected findings that I referenced earlier.

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I noticed what appeared like worms in the ceca, so naturally I cut it open. Yep, I was correct. Tiny, thread-like worms. Eew! Cecal worms! That was a little unnerving.

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I even took a short clip. As a result I opened all other intestines but found no other worms. I guess they might have a special hide out that I’m not aware of. Shrug.

Maybe @casportpony can she’d light on this. Should I be concerned?

Now for those who might remember me mentioning this, Butter snatched my diamond stud earring at only 5 weeks old. I almost changed her name to Diamond. I have her gizzard in my fridge right now. I am going to go through it with a fine toothed comb. I probably won’t find anything, but hey, a girl can hope can’t she?

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One last thing I’ve noticed for several weeks was when she walked she would sometimes pick up her right leg really high, kind of like she had it caught on something and was lifting her leg to get it loose. I wondered if the spread of her belly was causing her thigh to maybe feel like it was popping out of joint.

As for my fat bellied, spur legged girl, she is no longer suffering. In hindsight, I guess I let her suffer too long, but she did not really slow down until this week. I knew when she wasn’t leaving the run it was because it hurt her to walk. It was her time. There will never be another Butter, US Alabama Approved #7716. RIP my sweet girl.

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Here she is with her BFF’s, Biscuit and Penny. Butter is in the girl in the top of the picture, with that booty stuck high in the air.

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And here she is (on the left) with Biscuit just lounging around...again.View attachment 1954520

Thank you all for any and all advice.

I'm sorry to hear about Butter
Thank you for taking the time to share the photos and information. I agree, it should be turned into an article.

 

[Mimi13]

I'm sorry to hear about Butter
Thank you for taking the time to share the photos and information. I agree, it should be turned into an article.

Thank you very much. I have already gotten the article posted.

ETA: Corrected my grammar.

 

[Meg-in-MT]

You will be able to when the time comes I’m certain. I will say though, there is a difference between processing excess cockerels and euthanizing a special bird, even though I go through the same motions with each.

As I have said in prior posts, I had never personally taken the life of anything before I slaughtered an aggressive cockerel (which my family ate) so that was a new feeling I had to overcome. My main concern has always been, with any of the birds I’ve slaughtered/euthanized (basically killed), to make certain it is a quick and clean kill. I want no part of suffering, especially for my special birds.

I have dispatched birds, but never for meat and not ones that I was especially attached to. I'm plum convinced that if I name a bird it dies. It's the most ridiculous thing. I quit naming them a long time ago...

I'm glad you made that into an article, as it is definitely one I will refer to if/when I do a necropsy. It is a bit fascinating to see what is going on inside (not to be morbid) when you've not had that experience. I've seen my husband gut elk and deer, but I never paid too much attention and he's quite fast at it! I'm a softy, though, and that's my biggest issue