Post Phoenix Pics Please

[pugiosam]

So if I cross a Phoenix with an old English game than the offspring would have slightly longer feathers?

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Gone have to do some digging. I see slightly increased length only on a cross to a short tail breed. In my eyes its not dominate. In the nature of a truly dominate gene

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Just did a little genetics digging. One of the cases here where we were boh sort of right. Gt is co-dominate.

Which means its not dominate and its not recessive but sort of in the middle.

Reeders post was not quite correct on it .

This explains why in a cross from a long tail to a non long tail you end up with birds that are slightly longer than average. But no where near considered a long tail

My phoenix x old English I have here are similar in length to leg horns...

It still takes back crossing again a time or two to regain full length.

Otherwise the ohiki we have here would have never lost any tail length. To me, in layman's terms it still pretty much recessive because you have to get it in a homozygous state to get the full use of the gene

 

[onagadori]

Just did a little genetics digging. One of the cases here where we were boh sort of right. Gt is co-dominate.

Which means its not dominate and its not recessive but sort of in the middle.

Reeders post was not quite correct on it .

This explains why in a cross from a long tail to a non long tail you end up with birds that are slightly longer than average. But no where near considered a long tail

My phoenix x old English I have here are similar in length to leg horns...

It still takes back crossing again a time or two to regain full length.

Otherwise the ohiki we have here would have never lost any tail length. To me, in layman's terms it still pretty much recessive because you have to get it in a homozygous state to get the full use of the gene

it is what they call incomplete dominant.. like ginger for example. The first outcross will lengthen the feathering, but it will take multiple generations to achieve the length of the original parent (longtail) as you said. But being homozygous is something that doesn't determine if it is recessive or dominant. heterozygous baring is cuckoo.. homozygous is barred.. heterozygous dominant white is smutty white with some color showing through, homozygous dominant white is pure white.. never the less because it is expressed and has an effect on the first generation outcross it is called dominant. But I do understand why you called it recessive now.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Just did a little genetics digging. One of the cases here where we were boh sort of right. Gt is co-dominate.

Which means its not dominate and its not recessive but sort of in the middle.

Reeders post was not quite correct on it .

This explains why in a cross from a long tail to a non long tail you end up with birds that are slightly longer than average. But no where near considered a long tail

My phoenix x old English I have here are similar in length to leg horns...

It still takes back crossing again a time or two to regain full length.

Otherwise the ohiki we have here would have never lost any tail length. To me, in layman's terms it still pretty much recessive because you have to get it in a homozygous state to get the full use of the gene

Unless you get lucky like I did. I crossed a mutt bantam hen with my phoenix rooster last year just for some feather birds. The cockerel from that cross has a tail that has good length and the saddles are almost dragging the ground. But I'm sure that is one of those fluke chances. When we crossed an OEGB rooster with phoenix hens, it took a few generations to get back to normal phoenix look, plus you're dealing with the close feathering of the games

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Yep its just not to be considered a 1cross and done deal as most people consider dominate traits to be.
The old English crosses for example weren't even half way to the ground just had a slight droop compared to a normal old English cock bird.

So it will pass on easy but is not a 1 cross and done type thing. Takes multiple crosses to get back to where you were.

Where truly dominate genes like the ones you mentioned are clear and visible right off the get go.
They still need to be homozygous to get the full effect as well though. BUT you can instantly see them off the first cross. Not so much on the gt gene.

Wish I had a pic to share of the oegb cocks. One is a Pyle type. Son it shows what I'm getting at with both a dominate and a co dominate gene being added

 

[Nickeyo]

Nikeyo,
The gt gene, or growth gene that makes longtails grow long saddle and tail feathers is DOMINANT not recessive, this is why it is so easy to create outcrosses and make new colors. nonmolting is recessive. Here is an article about the genetics of the longtails and it will help


. http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/Longtail/ReederLongtailGenetics.html

thankyou for the information, I would love to see a polish cross phoenix

 

[Oldhound]

F1 Phoenix X Polish

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Amanda, you sure about that cuckoo and barred thing?
Those are just 2 different types of barred patterning. One having a fast growth gene and the other a slow growth gene.
Cuckoo being the wider barred as seen in the d'anver breed with a cast growth rate in the feathering causing the blurry look. and barred as seen in rocks and others being a finely patterned version due to the slower feather growth rate. Being het or hom on cuckoo makes no difference its still the wide bars. The difference I have seen in either is the het version is blacker and has solid black feathers in spots where the hom version is paler in tone with no solid colored feathering.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

...

But being homozygous is something that doesn't determine if it is recessive or dominant.

I have to disagree with this just a bit. The recessive or dominate nature of a gene is determined by the point in which its visual effect is seen. So only being seen in a homozygous form would be what is classed as a recessive gene.

Not making any point on any specific gene here or anything. Just saying that is what determines the type of gene