Post Phoenix Pics Please

[Kelpie]

Quote:
Kelpie,

What you have is a good looking BBRed Phoenix. The "American Onagadori" is only termed by myself and Mr. Hyde so unless its from either of ours, its really not "American Onagadori" or anything related because you can't trace the source back. I agree on you about folks who wouldn't stop beating on a dead horse but hey, its life. Nevertheless, you have such a beautiful healthy bird. Congrats!

- Tommy

Thank you for weighing in! The guy I bought the eggs from, John Reed in MD did say his line came from Cy. But having absolutely no documentation or knowledge (bought off ebay) I always took this with a grain of salt. His roo did appear to have a non moulting tail though, in the pictures he was holding it above his shoulders and it nearly touched the ground. So if it doesn't look like one of Cy's BBR's then I guess it is a phoenix.

 

[TommyVT05]

Quote:
Kelpie,

What you have is a good looking BBRed Phoenix. The "American Onagadori" is only termed by myself and Mr. Hyde so unless its from either of ours, its really not "American Onagadori" or anything related because you can't trace the source back. I agree on you about folks who wouldn't stop beating on a dead horse but hey, its life. Nevertheless, you have such a beautiful healthy bird. Congrats!

- Tommy

Thank you for weighing in! The guy I bought the eggs from, John Reed in MD did say his line came from Cy. But having absolutely no documentation or knowledge (bought off ebay) I always took this with a grain of salt. His roo did appear to have a non moulting tail though, in the pictures he was holding it above his shoulders and it nearly touched the ground. So if it doesn't look like one of Cy's BBR's then I guess it is a phoenix.

Kelpie & Others,

Almost all the "longtails" or "U.S. Onagadori" came from Mr. Cy one way or another but how they are bred, culled, etc. is a whole nother thing. It can be easily said "I got mines from Cy" but is it really? I talk to Mr. Cy almost every 1/4 of a year (or 3 months) just to catch up on things and breeding selections so he knows me very well. He is getting old so he forgets things really fast and don't really know who he sold to unless they keep on constant contact with him. Because of that, I can assume that anyone can just say "I got mines from Cy" just to make a better sale and to present a better looking birds just off that reputation itself. I am picky about those things so I got mines from Mr. Hyde directly and I made sure I got the best ones out of his many hundreds of birds he had years ago. As for the name calling, I don't think ANYONE has the right to claim certain names as right or wrong but at least keep it "clean" to the name calling. Calling a bird with "Onagadori" blood (even if not 100%) just as a Phoenix is under-representing it and calling it just Onagadori is over-representing it so that is why Mr. Cy called his the way he did and so do I. In the past 2 years, longtails got more and more popular and folks who are into it for a business started using what Mr. Hyde and I called ours to sell their birds and it got the longtail fowl breeders' world all pumped up because they sold Phoenix chickens as "Onagadori" or "American Onagadori". Just because of that, the name shouldn't be banned or looked down upon. We should just advise them what is proper and what is not and just let the customers decide for themselves. I myself would be mad if someone out of nowhere just decided to call their Phoenix as "Amer. Ongadori" just to compete with me when I am here trying to breed for selected traits and spending a lot of money on building this and that while they just breed them with minimal cost...

Cackle and a couple other small hatcheries got birds from me (or from Mr. Cy by my referral) through their employers to bred into their Phoenix line and now I heard rumors that they go around calling theirs "American Onagadori" too when it’s clear that it isn't...and unless they outcross them or breed them non-properly, they can't sell this rare longtail breed to the mass. I barely come up with at most 100-120 chicks each year from my top breeders when I use proper breeding methods so its doubtful that they breed them properly to come up with 1000's of chicks to supply each year...

Anyways, that is just my little spiel, but in general, you have a really really nice looking longtail and you should be proud of that guy even when he's only off eBay. I congratulate you for that ; ) Good luck and hope to stay in touch to exchange ideas down the road : )

- Tommy

PS: Happy Easter Sunday!!!

 

[emvickrey]

I agree with everything Tommy says. I got my birds from him last year. They are beautiful and I get lots of enjoyment from having them. I've tried to sell eggs many times but those that are "beating the horse" always have to ruin it for me with warnings. They actually post comments warning people not to buy anything from me. My birds are well taken care of and are PNIP certified. They're not caged up in those little cabinets they get exercise and free range.

I just wish that people would learn to get along and mind the're own business if they can't.

Where's the love

Ok now, lets all get in a circle and sing koom by ya.

(if that's how it's spelled)

 

[IndianaGardener]

First, I would like to say that I am not looking for an argument and I'm not trying to be snide in any way. I would simply like to address a few things to straighten out a few misnomers that have come up lately, both about the breeds and the Onagadori Forum.

Also, seems ridiculous to have americans on an onagadori devoted forum when they are refuting that they exist here.

Correct, there are no known Onagadori in the US, "American Onagadori" or otherwise. What we have here are Phoenix of varying quality just like you have with any other breed. There are birds that are hatchery quality, pet quality, and show quality. They all vary from one breeder to another. Each is nice in its own way and provides something for everyone; be it if they want yard birds for pets or want to exhibit.

The Onagadori forum, while US based, was started to give people in areas of the world who do breed Onagadori a place to meet and discuss their fowl so that they can offer advice to and learn from each other. There are many other breeds also featured on the forum so that everyone can be included. We also discuss Phoenix, Sumatra, Yokohama, Ohiki, and many others including long-crowers. It is a world wide meeting place. We have members from North and South America, Australia, many countries throughout Europe, and Korea. It is a very diverse forum.

Please do not discuss private disputes in open forum or discuss drama related to other forums here on BYC. Thank you. ~Lisa~

They're not caged up in those little cabinets they get exercise and free range.

No need to keep Phoenix in "cabinets" anyway. Sounds like you're doing a good job.

If people want to keep their birds as slate legged with streamline bodies and tails and saddles that molt every one to two years, then they're Phoenix and that's ok. If they want to make Onagadori by breeding for heavier bodies with green or yellow legs and breed them to molt the tail and saddles only ever three or more years, that's ok too. The group is there to help either way.

I wish people would stop seeing our birds in the US as poor quality Onagadori and see them for the great Phoenix that they are. We are fortunate enough to have some darn good Phoenix in the US. Embrace that instead of looking at what we don't have. Be more positive. The Phoenix has a rich heritage too. Despite common belief, the Phoenix can have quite long tails as well. They just differ from Onagadori in too many ways to be included under that breed's name. I don't understand what is wrong with being proud of the birds we have and calling them by the group into which they fit. My main gripe about this is that my friend and I frequently get emails from people who complain that the "American Onagadori - world's longest tailed bird" they bought isn't growing a long enough tail before molting. Then when explained that it's a Phoenix, a nice and unique breed in its own right, they become angry and let off steam at my friend and I. It's very frustrating for everyone when different breed names are used interchangeably. As a matter of fact, I have stopped replying to these emails all together. I feel as though I'm being rude by not replying to people, but I simply do not feel that it's my place to correct others' false information any longer. Anyway, that's just my two cents.


David​

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

very well said David!!
Fully agree, seems every time I try to help some one with this topic, I get the same reply as you. Tried to correct one on the for sale section the other day, being sold as ONAGADORI eggs for $20 a dozen, just tried to expelain that they were phoenix and needed to be called such, and not false advertised to avoind confussion to other newer breeder, and the hole thread got locked, guess I over stepped or something.
I too ama amember of the Onagadori Forum, both David and Toni-Marie on there have been nothing but a wealth of knowlwedge , very friendly and a great help to me. I 'd take them for their word on anything long tailed related, I mean after all they did write the book on it!!

Thanks David!

Aubrey

 

[RAREROO]

I agree Very Well Said !!!! I also completely agree with everything you said. Especially the part about trying to correct and educate someone and they get all defensive and claim you are "bashing " them as you put it.

 

[shay20]

Quote:
What do you mean ? Onags and Phoenix both have single combs.

Rareroo,

Of course...either one should have just a single comb. Just some variations have large combs than others : )

- Tommy

ohhhh wait my bad i am thinking on the yoko's, there the ones that have a different comb type. my bad

 

[The Chicken Lady]

Just a friendly reminder to all thread participants that private disputes, especially those related to incidents that have happened on other forums, should not be discussed openly here on BYC.

Please stay on topic. The point of this thread, as expressed by the OP, is to post pictures of Phoenix birds. If you want to have a breed discussion/debate, I suggest starting a new thread.

 

[mopargal1972]

This is Champ, a 5 week old Phoenix Bantam. I'm pretty sure that she is a pullet. She is the only chick I got out of the eggs I got from Boggy Bottom Bantams after they were left on my porch in 25 degree weather by the postal worker. Anyways, I was wondering what color she will be when she is an adult. I currently have a dozen more eggs from them in the bator now, so she should have friends soon!

Right now I am keeping her with my Golden Sebright chicks.

 

[RAREROO]

Quote:
Aubrey and I have been calling the ones we hatched from his eggs that were that color, Brown Reds, becuase the looked like the brown red color when they hatched. though I see that yours still has the brown colored markins on her, but on mine, her browns seems to be turning more of a silver color, yours may do the same. I'll have to get some updated pics of her and her two white sisters. I'll try tomorrow.

And mine is older than yours and I'm pretty sure she has less of a comb than yours so I'm kinda wondering if yours may be a roo ? Aubrey and I also noticed that as chicks, the females are getting longer tails while the males were keeping kind of pom pom looking tails, and yours has the shorter tail too, so ..... I'll getcha some pics soon.


And Aubrey, I'l like to see some pics of the combs and tails on the ones that you are thinking were roos from yours too if you can get some.