Post Pics Of Orps/ Orpingtons HERE

[DaveK]

I'm uncomfortable with this idea of having been misled. I do suspect a basic misunderstanding based on the information given about the original stock that provided hatching eggs for this poster.If a breeder told any of us that a pen contained birds that were 75% as well as 100% anything depending on the admixture of birds involved we could get all kinds of percentages and most importantly characteristics. If it was possible to have the 3/4-75% birds mating together there is tremendous room for variation as well as no reasonable idea that they should be considered as being the UK stock. Influenced by the UK stock but not bred down from it in it's entirety. Even the most carefully bred UK stock isn't going to produce a bunch of clones. The type of bird eventually produced by the breeders who stick with this stock will, like anything else, depend on the selection, mating up and further selection of stock produced. Ruth, your birds shared with us here are big, broad, deep and very handsome. You should be and I think are very proud of them. They are a good example of how some of the APA SOP characteristics could be given a boost by some of the UK influence now on our side of the pond.




Thanks Ladies. Most of the females I've posted pictures from are from eggs from Julie/Bama that I paid $150 a dozen for in late 2009 at which time they were advertised as being 75% and 100% English in the same pen so I'm not sure how they suddenly became un-English and American but I'll take a compliment where I can get it. The two young cockerels are their babies. I've also bought eggs from others who have bought from Joy and Julie and posted pics of those birds so those too should be 100% English shouldn't they? Over the past two years I've bought from many breeders who have beautiful lines of Orpingtons and worked to breed the best of the best.

So if I'm one of the breeders that others have said they know 100% for a fact that I don't have English Orps I guess I should start asking where along the line I got misled.

One of the original "Bama" girls and one of my favorites;

 

[rebel yell]

Thank you so much but the credit goes to Rebel Yell. It was his birds that produced her. He no longer has those birds, I understand, but has 100% English instead. These were part English and looked as though they had more English in them than they did.
I admit, I am proud of her though. And when I have them in the front for an hour before dark, passersby remark on her too. Rebel Yell did a fantastic job with those birds.

Thanks Galanie for the complement, That hen turned out great !!!!!!
And yes I have only 100% English Orps. now, & I don't take to kindly to them being called Cochin's either along with all the other breeders of these beautiful birds on here
Whats the big deal if they have this blood in them, where do people think American Orps. came from ? wouldn't they have some of the same blood in them as the English birds do ?
As far as I'm concerned without the English birds there never would have been a Orp. to begain with.

 

[Goose and Fig]

I don't understand why you got rid of the other birds. IMO, they were better than that blue roo. Again, JMHO.

 

[chickened]

This may be the big deal, from the SOP (The plumage of Orpingtons is important in order to maintain the ideal type of the breed. The feathers should be broad and smooth fitting on the deep and massive bodies of the fowl. The appearance of great massiveness should not be secured by developing by extreme lengths of feathers in the plumage. The sides of the bodies sometimes erroneously referred to as the "fluff" should be comparatively straight with full but not profuse feathering).

Now as someone relatively new to Orpingtons using the SOP guidelines to develop their birds now will have to breed out the undesirable traits like the longer feathers as mentioned in the SOP breed description as more English birds are mixed with American. From what I have read the original English birds brought to the U.S. do not resemble the English birds of today.

I will admit it is not the end of the world but it would seem hard for a beginner to obtain proper stock especially when you pay a premium for stock and only later find out that it was crossed with a type that is unacceptable in the SOP.]

This debate may be old news to some but to me it is relative and new. I have bred other breeds and never had this issue as it was either show or hatchery quality which was easy to weed out. Seems unorganized. Makes my Cornish seem easy.

English birds are beautiful in their own right.

Thanks Galanie for the complement, That hen turned out great !!!!!!
And yes I have only 100% English Orps. now, & I don't take to kindly to them being called Cochin's either along with all the other breeders of these beautiful birds on here
Whats the big deal if they have this blood in them, where do people think American Orps. came from ? wouldn't they have some of the same blood in them as the English birds do ?
As far as I'm concerned without the English birds there never would have been a Orp. to begain with.

 

[rebel yell]

Where & when did you see the other birds,
Because I have limited room & I wanted English birds is the reason I got rid of them,
Thanks for the put down I'll complement on yours someday

 

[Goose and Fig]

I wasn't insulting him, I just liked your old birds. And of course we're all smitten with Olive. I was going to try to get some from you and HenThymes last year on one of our trips to Shriner's, remember?

Where & when did you see the other birds,
Because I have limited room & I wanted English birds is the reason I got rid of them,
Thanks for the put down I'll complement on yours someday

 

[chickened]

My mistake

 

[Goose and Fig]

I think he was talking to me. But I don't understand why anybody would get so offended at the mention of cochins?

 

[chickened]

I screwed up

cochins are good but not ready to enter that world yet. This one is dfficult enough.

I think he was talking to me. But I don't understand why anybody would get so offended at the mention of cochins?

 

[galanie]

This may be the big deal, from the SOP (The plumage of Orpingtons is important in order to maintain the ideal type of the breed.  The feathers should be broad and smooth fitting on the deep and massive bodies of the fowl.  The appearance of great massiveness should not be secured by developing by extreme lengths of feathers in the plumage. The sides of the bodies sometimes erroneously referred to as the "fluff" should be comparatively straight with full but not profuse feathering).

Now as someone relatively new to Orpingtons using the SOP guidelines to develop their birds now will have to breed out the undesirable traits like the longer feathers as mentioned in the SOP breed description as more English birds are mixed with American. From what I have read the original English birds brought to the U.S. do not resemble the English birds of today.

I will admit it is not the end of the world but it would seem hard for a beginner to obtain proper stock especially when you pay a premium for stock and only later find out that it was crossed with a type that is unacceptable in the SOP.]

This debate may be old news to some but to me it is relative and new. I have bred other breeds and never had this issue as it was either show or hatchery quality which was easy to weed out.  Seems unorganized.  Makes my Cornish seem easy.

English birds are beautiful in their own right.

 

I would respectfully suggest that a person wanting to breed to a standard be familiar with that standard and get birds that conform closely to it in the first place. But it is common for breeders on both sides of the pond to breed in the other to get desired qualities that are lacking in their flocks.

I understand how this can all be confusing to someone just getting started in Orpingtons though. Having jumped in and gotten great English blood from a flock that was, it turns out, bred to a different standard could be irritating. Since they are shown in the English class in shows, assuming that "English" in the line is good for a bird you expect to breed to APA show standards is reasonable in that light.