Poultry Breeds of Spanish Ancestry

[gjensen]

I would like to see the pictures. They are a breed that I would like to get to know better. I had considered toying with some bantams. One breed is really best for me, but I can play with something on the side. I really like that color on that breed. Are the bantams reasonable layers?

I like to hear what people are seeing with my pictures. I pick up on a little bit like that.

 

[Lacy Blues]

The first male is an 8month old cockerel.

The second male is a 7month old cockerel, and his wing color. Part of learning this color will be learning to balance the qty of black and keeping it in the right sections.

As Jason likes them called Prat Leonoda.

You know Jason, I do not know a breed that I have seen so many variations of the name used. Personally, I like just Prat, but know one here would know what you were talking about. The full name is lengthy.

This breed is rare in the States, but has been recognized here. Though this breed is rare here, it has had it's share of influence. It used to be an important breed in all of Latin America, where it was noted for it's heat tolerance, ruggedness, egg laying ability and quality of flesh. The breed was and still is used to make capon in Spain. The quality of the flesh has been likened to the La Bresse in France. They had been developed much farther than the land race fowl they were originally. A breed worthy of it's name.

The general consensus is that the Cochin was used to improve the carcass of local farm birds, and that this breed contributed the color. From what I gather it seams most likely that it was what is known as the Cochin China, and it would also be important to note that Cochin at the time was much different than what we know now.

Wow! The first cockerel looks like he's a really good size (except he has really small feet) and then we see the second cockerel. I was absolutely shocked. At first I thought it was the same bird then after examining and reading further found out otherwise. Can you hold the 8month old in one hand like that? Maybe you have really big hands? You just make them look small, though they didn't look that small standing on their own two feet. I know you're still fairly new to the breed but I was wondering if they are the correct size and in your experience, if not, will they continue to grow? Is their weight close to standard?

So is the color of these birds correct? They look good to me, maybe its my monitor? I like them George. Of course they are only photos but they look to me to be not as far off as you say but then, you're the one that sees them day in and day out and you see the faults.

I just read through the standard while looking over these pictures and from what I can tell, type is right on except for the angle of the back but I can't really see his back well enough to see its angle so I can't really comment on that part. I think that color might be the thing you need to work on. Though I like the way they look, the standard says that the reddish buff on his back should fade to a lighter buff at the saddle (matching the buff at the lower hackle) and that buff should match the breast color. Couldn't see the color on the secondaries.

Hope a critique is ok?

 

[Lacy Blues]

I would like to see the pictures. They are a breed that I would like to get to know better. I had considered toying with some bantams. One breed is really best for me, but I can play with something on the side. I really like that color on that breed. Are the bantams reasonable layers?

I like to hear what people are seeing with my pictures. I pick up on a little bit like that.

From what I can tell, my bantams lay pretty well. I have 20 girls in one pen out there and most days I get between 8-10 eggs, so every other day for the most part right now. There are a few that I don't think have returned to laying yet as their combs are still shrunken and dry looking. They better hurry up though because they might get culled if they don't. I have birds in other pens that lay every day so perhaps these others just aren't fully back into the swing of things.

 

[gjensen]

Wow! The first cockerel looks like he's a really good size (except he has really small feet) and then we see the second cockerel. I was absolutely shocked. At first I thought it was the same bird then after examining and reading further found out otherwise. Can you hold the 8month old in one hand like that? Maybe you have really big hands? You just make them look small, though they didn't look that small standing on their own two feet. I know you're still fairly new to the breed but I was wondering if they are the correct size and in your experience, if not, will they continue to grow? Is their weight close to standard?

So is the color of these birds correct? They look good to me, maybe its my monitor? I like them George. Of course they are only photos but they look to me to be not as far off as you say but then, you're the one that sees them day in and day out and you see the faults.

I just read through the standard while looking over these pictures and from what I can tell, type is right on except for the angle of the back but I can't really see his back well enough to see its angle so I can't really comment on that part. I think that color might be the thing you need to work on. Though I like the way they look, the standard says that the reddish buff on his back should fade to a lighter buff at the saddle (matching the buff at the lower hackle) and that buff should match the breast color. Couldn't see the color on the secondaries.

Hope a critique is ok?

Of course, a critique is ok. I did start with this breed to post pictures and brag on what someone else bred up, LOL.

They are a little slight Lacy. The bottom one still has almost has 5 1/2 months (26wks) to go, but he will not get there. He still has until August. He is 7 months, not 8 months. These were the last of the year last year. Hatched in July and August. I will guess that he will be around 7lbs. I think that I could show him as a cock this fall and not get disqualified for size, if that means anything.

I do not know what to make of how they grow out yet. They are quick to mature, but slow to finish. I have never had birds grow out like this. His father did that. I got him and felt that he was small. Kept talking about how undersized he was. He had spurs like a more mature bird, and looked pretty developed. Now he is at Standard weight. He just kept growing.
I suspect they need a "pick me up", which I have what I need to do that now.

I will see where they are in August. That will be the final judgment. Regardless, size and how they grow out is a priority this year.

The color is correct on how you would find them in Spain, or anywhere but here. We are the only ones that have them as light as we do. I do suspect that the picture that we have is a bit misleading. I think they are more yellow (males) than what is described. You cannot go back and discuss the description with those that wrote it to be 100% certain. Color descriptions are so subjective and the breed has not had enough of a following here to have a point of reference.

Bridgette has similar colored males, and she is doing well. Her females are certainly better colored than mine, but the males are close in color. Her birds are a bit meatier than my own, but my two cocks are taller and longer than hers. Hers are shorter than what I have. The male I have from her is very short, and the pullets a little smaller than mine at a similar age. I am making a comparison to hers, because she is my only point of reference, and she has done real well with them.
I do think the trio I got from her could really help. Her birds have some strengths that mine do not. They are the same strain, from what I can gather, but far removed. Something like ten years. I feel mine have gotten a little too close in breeding, so I am guessing that a shot of vigor will be a plus. I think they will grow out better.

I took those pictures to discuss the color with a friend. It did not work well, because they came out darker than what I see in person. The first male is not that dark. The second one is not as far off, but he is much brighter looking. I thought about editing the photos first, but did not want to manipulate the results.

The tail angle is fine with these two birds, but is a problem in the flock as a whole. The tails in my mails are not as developed as you would want them.

The angle of the back is described as a slight slope. They are not supposed to be as high shouldered as an Andalusion. The Spanish birds have a very high station, but ours should be medium high. These two are ok. the younger bird sits a little higher, which I prefer. The birds here tend to have more level backs, which is a fault. Fortunately, their is variation in my flock on this point. A profile shot would make this point more clear.

Concerning the feet . . .they are lighter framed than they should be in general. Catalanas should be a medium heavy bird with a sturdy frame. They should make good dual purpose birds and be physically able to lay many extra large eggs. That is what made them popular.

You definitely do not try something like this to show off wonderful birds. That is what most do on here. A lot of nice birds, but they were nice when they got them. Lets see where we are in five years. We have a lot to work on but we able to claim the results as our own. Either good or bad.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Oh, let me add, like in the standard, after requiring these different shades of buff, they say in a "Note: The plumage should form a harmonious blend with no great contrasts in color."

I guess the key would lie in the definition of "great" regarding the contrast of colors. Hmmm

 

[gjensen]

Oh, let me add, like in the standard, after requiring these different shades of buff, they say in a "Note: The plumage should form a harmonious blend with no great contrasts in color."

I guess the key would lie in the definition of "great" regarding the contrast of colors. Hmmm

With these Cats of mine, they should be lighter over all, but not as light as an Orpington buff, and my females well . . . that is a topic for another day.

In reality Catalanas are the same color as Nankins, but hey Standard was written for them to be a more pure buff. But, not all of the way . . . Kind of an odd place to be.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

The first male is an 8month old cockerel.

The second male is a 7month old cockerel, and his wing color. Part of learning this color will be learning to balance the qty of black and keeping it in the right sections.

As Jason likes them called Prat Leonoda.

You know Jason, I do not know a breed that I have seen so many variations of the name used. Personally, I like just Prat, but know one here would know what you were talking about. The full name is lengthy.

This breed is rare in the States, but has been recognized here. Though this breed is rare here, it has had it's share of influence. It used to be an important breed in all of Latin America, where it was noted for it's heat tolerance, ruggedness, egg laying ability and quality of flesh. The breed was and still is used to make capon in Spain. The quality of the flesh has been likened to the La Bresse in France. They had been developed much farther than the land race fowl they were originally. A breed worthy of it's name.

The general consensus is that the Cochin was used to improve the carcass of local farm birds, and that this breed contributed the color. From what I gather it seams most likely that it was what is known as the Cochin China, and it would also be important to note that Cochin at the time was much different than what we know now.

really nice birds to work with George,
I think some of the color is the background. the white snow really brightens a chicken.
They are really nice though.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

Right now, my incubator is full. I started it on Wednesday afternoon so it's only been 3 days. The only eggs in there right now are bantams. With this project, I am mainly selecting for size but also keeping color and definition of lacing on the back burner. This set of eggs is from my best looking birds, not my smallest, but beautiful birds... just too big. Most all of them are too big at this point. One of the hens in that pen is a sister to the male. The way I understand it, one of the first things you'll notice in mating brother/sister is a reduction in size. However, I'm not sure that they are from the same hen. The sire is the same over them both. We'll see how it goes.

In the pen I am working with currently, I have a splash male who is showing quite a bit of red in his shoulders. He is being mated to a splash hen so that hopefully, any that show any red can be culled and maybe that will be the last I see of it from that particular line. He is also being mated to a teeny tiny little black girl with no foreign colors.

I have another rooster that is black and for him I have another splash hen who hasn't returned to laying after her molt yet. Same situation (at least part sister) and I need to pick another hen to go with him. His comb flops just the smallest amount right at the top. Its more like the points of his comb lean over just a tiny bit, maybe 10* so I want to choose a hen with a fully upright comb to go with him. He has no foreign colors so I don't want to introduce any. His mates will be as clean as possible in the color department. His comb is the only problem I see in him, other than the fact that he is too big, and he's one of the smallest.

For the last bantam pen, I have a blue male that has a tremendous amount of white, not only in his feathers, but in under color and his legs are white as well. He has really nice type and I want to use him with a darker blue girl (a sister if I can find one) and maybe a black girl. I definitely have a black girl that is a sister and she's a beauty so I'll have to see what I have that is blue that can be put with him.

I only have two bantam splashes. The male and the female that isn't back to laying after her molt yet. I have two "large fowl" splash hens that are so ridiculously small that I am using them in the bantam pens.

For my large fowl pens, I'm working on color and size mostly. I have some birds that look big but really aren't very big at all. I'm kind of perplexed about this though. I am wondering if my birds have too much fluff as you can see their hock joints but just barely. I'm supposed to be able to see them "well below the body line." So I will be keeping mental notes to keep this part of my breeding project strong. I've seen pictures online of other people's birds and their legs appear to be quite a bit longer than what I see in my flock. I have started throwing fermented grains for them into their deep litter to make them work for it. They need a little exercise as I'm thinking they have gotten fat and lazy and maybe that is part of the problem. This next spring/summer along with putting a proper roof onto my barn, I want to dramatically increase the size of their runs so they can actually get out there and run. We have too many stray dogs around here so they cannot "free-range."

I'll keep trying to get pictures of some of my birds and get them posted here. Andalusians are also coming up on the CSU thread and I don't know if anyone else will post pictures but I will be making a strong attempt to do so.

me too I have my R-Com 20 going and my Genesis. my last hatch had poor fertility which I generally get her till March. all my Roosters are doing there jobs.
I have 5 total
2 crele penedesenca ( 1 was hatched from a friend in Nevada Stagecoach , silver springs area and real close to you. she is the person with the Wallaby on the penedesenca site. )
The other one is the one I hatched.
I have 2 white Empordanesa Roosters. these have good combs and Look good in General. probably a little to small by id say half a pound they have some Buff/Blond leakage in the back. this happens with them and id like to work this out. My first Rooster did not have it. he was a super star but sadly was killed.
Empordanesa seem to fill in slower than the others and this may be why there a little light still. with how rare they are it is going to be a tough project as my blood consists of the only 2 other people I know with them.

My Blacks we we will see what hatches. I have my one rooster from Ron. Great comb. no white on his earlobes though his sister that on has does. like I said though his comb is supper and the best example of a Penedesenca comb I have had. He is a big boy though and probably 7 1/2 maybe 8 pounds which is larger than the standard. My hens are about 6 to 6 1/2. they are from Sand Hill.
they actually look really good for a hatchery type. However Ive had 2 others that died from being less than vigorous and the rest I gave away for looking nothing like Penedesenca. More like a leghorn. Was a bummer too as I waited a year for them. My hope is I can possibly hatch some that have white earlobes and decent size then get eggs from @ChickenCanoe or @DirtyAnkleAcres
to work on them too. Im not concerned with the size as that can be corrected when they are larger easily.
Honestly as far a personality my Black Rooster is quite friendly. he doesn't care to be picked up and says a few feet away but he follows me all over. One of my Empordanesa is the same way.
so I've rambled. Basically I have a lot of work ahead of me and decisions. I really could use the run the blacks are in for Empordanesa but i like the blacks. My Creles in run 1 are the best I have. The rooster from my friend in run 2 has a poor comb but he is in with 2 nice hens and my silver ameraucana. Penedesenca comb is tough because you will always get some straight combs from birds with appendixes and some with appendixes from birds with straight comb. so I am sure I will get a few good roosters to watch from him.

 

[gjensen]

really nice birds to work with George,
I think some of the color is the background. the white snow really brightens a chicken.
They are really nice though.

In this case it was late in the day, with the low sun and among the pines, the effect was that the birds look darker than they are.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

In this case it was late in the day, with the low sun and among the pines, the effect was that the birds look darker than they are.

everything glows in the snow lol