Poultry Breeds of Spanish Ancestry

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gjensen said:
It was not a critique Ron. I like the Pens. I cannot help it. lol. That might be where I went first.
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I know George, I agree about breeding to width to improve the tails. I always appreciate your posts.

Thanks for the advice as always. It means a lot to me that you see potential in them.
 
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So breeding for width will produce a wide open tail?

I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling some breeding practices I've done. I have used the Hogan method for determining a good layer and choosing males with the same potential in their bone structure. Breeding toward a larger egg when my Andalusians lay a "medium" egg. I am wondering if this practice is responsible for some of the type issues I see in some of the birds in my flocks... deeper abdomens and seemingly shorter legs. I don't know if its the fluff on my birds or the deeper abdomens that are giving them that look... like a dual purpose bird... I'm wondering if I should just leave them alone and let them lay medium sized eggs. Maybe that will help the type in my yard.

Just thinking out loud. A discussion on the matter wouldn't upset me at all.
 
Lacy Blues said:
So breeding for width will produce a wide open tail?

I'm having a bit of trouble reconciling some breeding practices I've done. I have used the Hogan method for determining a good layer and choosing males with the same potential in their bone structure. Breeding toward a larger egg when my Andalusians lay a "medium" egg. I am wondering if this practice is responsible for some of the type issues I see in some of the birds in my flocks... deeper abdomens and seemingly shorter legs. I don't know if its the fluff on my birds or the deeper abdomens that are giving them that look... like a dual purpose bird... I'm wondering if I should just leave them alone and let them lay medium sized eggs. Maybe that will help the type in my yard.

Just thinking out loud. A discussion on the matter wouldn't upset me at all.
Click to expand...

Selection is the most effective when it is direct. That is not to say that nothing else matters, just that by going in a circle to get back to where you started is not as effective. In short, to select for a larger average egg size, is to set the largest eggs. It is that simple. It is setting a standard for egg size based on what you see, and gradually raising the bar as the average size improves. You will only get as far as the variability within your flock will allow. The more variability, the faster the progress.

The Hogan method is helpful. It is not a breeding method though. It is more of a culling method. I have adapted some of the concepts to the rhythm of the seasons as I select for appropriate type. I agree with selecting for capacity, but all of the capacity in the world does not put eggs in the basket. The most direct way to improve qty. and select the better layers, cull the poorest layers, and select sons of the better layers that prove themselves by their offspring. In other words, his daughters produce better than his brothers when mated with the same females.
All to say, that the most direct way is the most effective way.

I see selecting the width to carry through is about capacity, and fit birds. There does seam to be a correlation on some level to pinched tails, but I evaluate tails by looking at tails. I believe the finish on an otherwise good bird is not complete without an open tail and good tail spread.

So evaluating the fluff, I would focus on it directly by handling them and establishing who has more and less.

I have become skeptical and wary of the round about suggestions, and have come to prefer to break them down into pieces and parts. Then evaluating those parts specifically.

I do not know if any of this makes sense, but that is my two cents. Maybe someone will have something helpful to add.
 
CatalanState said:
Yes, take a look to this power point presentation (in catalan)

http://agora.xtec.cat/ecamanresa/mo...5/pollastres MILLORATS de les races catalanes
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Thank you for sharing this. I can only read half of it unfortunately.

What I am seeing is 2500 grams or 5.5 lbs in 16 wks. Is that correct. I am afraid that I might be losing something in translation. I also see that they are about 80% of their total weight at this age?

I like the charts. This view on the evaluation of poultry fits my own.

The birds in the pictures look like they weigh in the range of 9lbs as cocks.

My birds have become a project of their own. Performance is a concern of mine.

I wish that I could speak the language and visit the place.
 
gjensen said:
Thank you for sharing this. I can only read half of it unfortunately.

What I am seeing is 2500 grams or 5.5 lbs in 16 wks. Is that correct. I am afraid that I might be losing something in translation. I also see that they are about 80% of their total weight at this age?

I like the charts. This view on the evaluation of poultry fits my own.

The birds in the pictures look like they weigh in the range of 9lbs as cocks.

My birds have become a project of their own. Performance is a concern of mine.

I wish that I could speak the language and visit the place.
Click to expand...

2500 grams or 5,5 lb is the wight of the females, the cockerels weight about 3800 grams at this age.
 
CatalanState said:
2500 grams or 5,5 lb is the wight of the females, the cockerels weight about 3800 grams at this age.
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Thank you. I realized that after I tried to read back through it. I was able to sort a little more out.

Those weights are a big accomplishment, and there would be a lot to commend them. That would make for big eating large layers though. I do not want to go that far. I am hoping to get mine consistently a little over our Standard weight, but not much more. Providing they have a reasonable carcass at a young age, I am satisfied.

I skinned a couple 6 wk old cull cockerels yesterday. I was pleased with the qty. of flesh on the young bird. They would be good spachcocks for the grill at this age or a week or two later.

It would be nice to be able to have a trio of the "improved" variety to use in my own flock. They would help me get to where I want to get.

I appreciate the information that you have shared.
 

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