Preserving "lacing" in breeding

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Hi Shell

We would need a little more information about your other birds before taking a crack at the possible outcomes if you bred them to your Gold Sebright

And just to quickly comment on the white - the outcomes will depend on which type of white you have. There is Dominant White and Recessive White.

If you are able to give us the specific breed and detailed colour/pattern description of your proposed rooster, and potentially a picture, the would be awesome!!

 

[Shell from Zim]

Hi Shell

We would need a little more information about your other birds before taking a crack at the possible outcomes if you bred them to your Gold Sebright

And just to quickly comment on the white - the outcomes will depend on which type of white you have. There is Dominant White and Recessive White.

If you are able to give us the specific breed and detailed colour/pattern description of your proposed rooster, and potentially a picture, the would be awesome!!

That's very kind of you to take a crack. I posted pics with some details earlier. I'll pop the link here I hope you don't mind taking a lil peek, and if you are open to cracking that case, please do TIA

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...out-your-crested-birds.1494168/#post-24925781

 

[Sally PB]

I also have a buff orpington/black australorp cross

Do you have any pictures of this? I'm wondering what I'd get from my BO roo and a BA hen.

 

[NatJ]

That's very kind of you to take a crack. I posted pics with some details earlier. I'll pop the link here I hope you don't mind taking a lil peek, and if you are open to cracking that case, please do TIA

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...out-your-crested-birds.1494168/#post-24925781

If you want to produce laced chicks from your crested ones, I suggest you cross one of the Wheatens to the Sebright. Then cross one of those chicks back to the Sebright, hatch a bunch of chicks, and see if you can find some with lacing that also have crets. It shouldn't matter whether you use a Blue Wheaten or a Wheaten that has some black.

It might be easier if you think of it as making crested Sebrights, because crest is one gene and lacing is caused by a combination of several genes. So just keep backcrossing to Sebright and selecting crested birds. (Of course you don't have to select for all the other Sebright characteristics, I just think that the easiest way to get lacing is to have a bird that's mostly Sebright but still has the crest you want.)

 

[Shell from Zim]

Hi Shell

We would need a little more information about your other birds before taking a crack at the possible outcomes if you bred them to your Gold Sebright

And just to quickly comment on the white - the outcomes will depend on which type of white you have. There is Dominant White and Recessive White.

If you are able to give us the specific breed and detailed colour/pattern description of your proposed rooster, and potentially a picture, the would

Thank you

If you want to produce laced chicks from your crested ones, I suggest you cross one of the Wheatens to the Sebright. Then cross one of those chicks back to the Sebright, hatch a bunch of chicks, and see if you can find some with lacing that also have crets. It shouldn't matter whether you use a Blue Wheaten or a Wheaten that has some black.

It might be easier if you think of it as making crested Sebrights, because crest is one gene and lacing is caused by a combination of several genes. So just keep backcrossing to Sebright and selecting crested birds. (Of course you don't have to select for all the other Sebright characteristics, I just think that the easiest way to get lacing is to have a bird that's mostly Sebright but

If you want to produce laced chicks from your crested ones, I suggest you cross one of the Wheatens to the Sebright. Then cross one of those chicks back to the Sebright, hatch a bunch of chicks, and see if you can find some with lacing that also have crets. It shouldn't matter whether you use a Blue Wheaten or a Wheaten that has some black.

It might be easier if you think of it as making crested Sebrights, because crest is one gene and lacing is caused by a combination of several genes. So just keep backcrossing to Sebright and selecting crested birds. (Of course you don't have to select for all the other Sebright characteristics, I just think that the easiest way to get lacing is to have a bird that's mostly Sebright but still has the crest you want.)

Thank you. Sounds like a very good plan. My sebright is growing up with the crested chicks so it should be fairly easy. I would love to mix her with my big crested w/black boy Rufous.. though one of the lil w blue cockerels looks like he may take the crown on crests. So 2 good options there Yay.. winning They have a few months to go before they're mature enough, so the timing for planning, and choosing which to keep and which to rehome, is perfect. Thank you for your informed input NatJ.. Much appreciated

 

[Shell from Zim]

Oh dear Sorry for the muddle in responses there.. thats what happens when you have power cuts halfway through responses, then have to start again hahaha. Blaming the Zimbabwe situation

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

That's very kind of you to take a crack. I posted pics with some details earlier. I'll pop the link here I hope you don't mind taking a lil peek, and if you are open to cracking that case, please do TIA

https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...out-your-crested-birds.1494168/#post-24925781

First let me say - Lovely Flock!!!

OK - First observation - looks like your roo there is a wheaten roo. So I'm going to assume the basic genetic build for him is:

E^Wh / E^Wh (Thats the Wheaten base with no modifications)

Second Obvservation - Unless I'm looking at the wrong picture?, your little hen isn't a pure sebright, but does share some sebright traits. Her patterning is not a single lace, but rather a blend of incomplete double lacing and spangling. This would be an entirely expected outcome if a sebright had been bred to something else and this hen was the result. (See some of my other posts to see birds of mine that are very similar!) For this hen I'm going to take a very rough guess at her genetic build (influenced on what I've learned from mine) and say she "might" be as follows:

E^R / E^R OR E^R / e^b - Either a Birchen Base or Birchen & Partridge Base
Co / Co - Double dose of Columbian Gene
Db / Db - Double dose of Ginger Gene (this may change depending on the base above)
Pg / Pg - Double dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene

This genetic build "should" give a Gold Bird with Black Incomplete Double Lacing and Half Spangling. A couple of the gene pairs could change a little bit but essentially this is the recipe you're starting with.



Sooo....
If you bred your Wheaten rooster with the above hen you would get babies that are as follows:

The base will be half wheaten and half from mom:
So E^Wh / E^R or E^Wh / e^b

The base colour will be brown/red/gold - neither parent offers any red diluters (i.e. silver)

The black patterning will be variable, depending on which genes are passed down from mom. Let's assume that half of the above genes from above are given as follows:

Co / co+ - Single dose of Columbian Gene
Db / db+ - Single dose of Ginger Gene (maybe?)
Pg / pg+ - Single dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene (maybe?)

What that would look like on a bird could be quite variable. Anywhere from similar to your wee mom to a bird with simple black smudges and random black placement on the feathers.

Suggest you play with the chicken calculator to see what happens when you add and takeaway various genes!! It's really fun and addictive haha.

http://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

 

[Shell from Zim]

I also have 23 chicks under a light and my generator needs looking at I've had to light fires in the livingroom fireplace and move the brooders into the living room some nights. I had 2 tiny chicks in a woolen beanie tucked into a lil makeshift nesty shape earlier haha.. it worked, they twittered happily together through the cut. The older ones are now more feathered and more acclimatised, so they had a blanket around the brooder and over some of the top, plus there are 21 to warm each other.. luckily it was a short one, the nights is mild and the chooks and the wood survives another night

 

[Shell from Zim]

First let me say - Lovely Flock!!!

OK - First observation - looks like your roo there is a wheaten roo. So I'm going to assume the basic genetic build for him is:

E^Wh / E^Wh (Thats the Wheaten base with no modifications)

Second Obvservation - Unless I'm looking at the wrong picture?, your little hen isn't a pure sebright, but does share some sebright traits. Her patterning is not a single lace, but rather a blend of incomplete double lacing and spangling. This would be an entirely expected outcome if a sebright had been bred to something else and this hen was the result. (See some of my other posts to see birds of mine that are very similar!) For this hen I'm going to take a very rough guess at her genetic build (influenced on what I've learned from mine) and say she "might" be as follows:

E^R / E^R OR E^R / e^b - Either a Birchen Base or Birchen & Partridge Base
Co / Co - Double dose of Columbian Gene
Db / Db - Double dose of Ginger Gene (this may change depending on the base above)
Pg / Pg - Double dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene

This genetic build "should" give a Gold Bird with Black Incomplete Double Lacing and Half Spangling. A couple of the gene pairs could change a little bit but essentially this is the recipe you're starting with.



Sooo....
If you bred your Wheaten rooster with the above hen you would get babies that are as follows:

The base will be half wheaten and half from mom:
So E^Wh / E^R or E^Wh / e^b

The base colour will be brown/red/gold - neither parent offers any red diluters (i.e. silver)

The black patterning will be variable, depending on which genes are passed down from mom. Let's assume that half of the above genes from above are given as follows:

Co / co+ - Single dose of Columbian Gene
Db / db+ - Single dose of Ginger Gene (maybe?)
Pg / pg+ - Single dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene (maybe?)

What that would look like on a bird could be quite variable. Anywhere from similar to your wee mom to a bird with simple black smudges and random black placement on the feathers.

Suggest you play with the chicken calculator to see what happens when you add and takeaway various genes!! It's really fun and addictive haha.

http://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

Wow nothing gets past you does it You are totally right.. actually the sebrights mother was a silver.. (sex linked to a golden roo) and her Dad was a wheaten-black non crested bantam roo below(cochin/oegb/? A gazillion guesses what breed they are)

Thank you very much. I'm going to read the rest of your informed post. Much appreciate

 

[Shell from Zim]

First let me say - Lovely Flock!!!

OK - First observation - looks like your roo there is a wheaten roo. So I'm going to assume the basic genetic build for him is:

E^Wh / E^Wh (Thats the Wheaten base with no modifications)

Second Obvservation - Unless I'm looking at the wrong picture?, your little hen isn't a pure sebright, but does share some sebright traits. Her patterning is not a single lace, but rather a blend of incomplete double lacing and spangling. This would be an entirely expected outcome if a sebright had been bred to something else and this hen was the result. (See some of my other posts to see birds of mine that are very similar!) For this hen I'm going to take a very rough guess at her genetic build (influenced on what I've learned from mine) and say she "might" be as follows:

E^R / E^R OR E^R / e^b - Either a Birchen Base or Birchen & Partridge Base
Co / Co - Double dose of Columbian Gene
Db / Db - Double dose of Ginger Gene (this may change depending on the base above)
Pg / Pg - Double dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene

This genetic build "should" give a Gold Bird with Black Incomplete Double Lacing and Half Spangling. A couple of the gene pairs could change a little bit but essentially this is the recipe you're starting with.



Sooo....
If you bred your Wheaten rooster with the above hen you would get babies that are as follows:

The base will be half wheaten and half from mom:
So E^Wh / E^R or E^Wh / e^b

The base colour will be brown/red/gold - neither parent offers any red diluters (i.e. silver)

The black patterning will be variable, depending on which genes are passed down from mom. Let's assume that half of the above genes from above are given as follows:

Co / co+ - Single dose of Columbian Gene
Db / db+ - Single dose of Ginger Gene (maybe?)
Pg / pg+ - Single dose of Pencilling Gene
Ml / ml+ - Single dose of Melanistic Gene (maybe?)

What that would look like on a bird could be quite variable. Anywhere from similar to your wee mom to a bird with simple black smudges and random black placement on the feathers.

Suggest you play with the chicken calculator to see what happens when you add and takeaway various genes!! It's really fun and addictive haha.

http://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html

Thank you. That is another first today.. a chicken calculator. Sounds very fun. Thank you so much for your detailed input.. wow.. much knowledge there.. although I fear my last post re sex linked silver may throw a spanner lol

It will be interesting to see what does develop with this mix. I have access to pure gold and silver sebrights if she turns out to be a wrong move. I was given 2 by a friend but one arrived v poorly and didn't make it, the other managed to somehow get over the fence into the neighbours yard where their dog killed her I have fortified the fence since. They are very flighty, skittish birds and the sounds they make are weird. I only want the lacing.. and maybe the upright tail feature, and dropped wing tips would enhance the shape of my birds I guess its all in the doing hahaha