Proof Coop Insulation Does Nothing.

[Mrs MIA]

Quote:
No, I actually do keep it at 65. I have a layer barn of 2500 hens producing certified organic eggs. If the hens are kept below 50 F then there is a marked decline in production. Also, as the temperature drops they consume more feed. Below 65 degrees the increase in feed consumption goes up rather quickly. I can either feed them more of the expensive organic feed or I can heat it with propane and also keep the conditions rather nice in there. Over the 4 month heating season here I spend around $1000 in propane heating the layer barn. Over that period they eat around $17,000 in feed. If they eat 5% or 6% less in feed during that period because of the increased temperature in the barn, then the propane is paid for by reduced feed costs.

It's a wash either way. I can spend the money on feed or I can spend it on propane. I choose propane because it keeps the environment nicer in there and the litter in better condition with less ammonia production.

By the way... It's 30 F outside right now and it's 70 F in the barn right now, without any supplemental heat. That's because the barn is well insulated and the ventilation is adjusted to the minimum rate to keep the humidity and ammonia in check. My birds are nice and cozy, running around the barn picking through a few hay bales I gave them earlier in the day.

Ah... ok, that makes sense. I use the "more birds" method of heating too, but I don't have quite that many.

I think you're the minority here.

It's warmed up to 12F here, and is about 27*F in the breeder coop with about 35 -40 birds.

And that's with insulation everywhere but the floors, and vents open.

 

[Mrs MIA]

BTW, If I'm ever in WI, can I come visit? I'd love to see your setup.

Actually, I'd love for my HUSBAND to see your setup, so that he realizes that I'm small potatoes.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Mrs. AK-Bird-Brain :

BTW, If I'm ever in WI, can I come visit? I'd love to see your setup.

Actually, I'd love for my HUSBAND to see your setup, so that he realizes that I'm small potatoes.

Absolutely.​

 

[calista]

Hey, Chickens-246, thanks very much for posting the explanation and pictures of your experiment. That was really intriguing and should provide lots of food for thought for coop owners wishing to insulate in cold climates.

I'd be one of those with a family story centering on Grandpa laughing his *** off at the concept of any insulation at all in his hen house. It was strictly "open-air" and every chicken for himself in HIS coop, even when the temps went down below zero. (Admittedly, not very often in the maritime climate west of the Cascades.)

I enjoyed ready your rationale and your answers to those posters who were, ah, SKEPTICAL.

 

[dieselgrl48]

Hmmm Interesting.None of my coops are insualted but all are on floor's whether be concrete wood or some sleep in dirt floor horse stall but roost in rafter's or wall ledges etc..I worried when I got my first bantams years ago.I had a pair of malaysian serama which I didn't expect to raise thru their first winter.They loved the snow and the seemed to fair well and I had them for 5 years till I had to sell every bird out last year.I Try to keep fresh clean bedding/ hay in for frizzle's or silkie's when I have them.But OE's and some standards are just going to roost in rafter's etc.If one want's to put the extra expense in to keep the bird's a few degree's warmer that's cool.They even have these cool wall coop heater's.I Just keep mine in closed coops not on wire pens EVER.I have about 14 month = old's out for about a month in coop on hay and they are doing great with some temps dipping into 20's at night here already.Awesome pic's.Hope your bird's have a good winter and aren't too spoiled by the tropic's.

 

[Carols Clucks]

I think that much of the discussion on this thread would be different had the title been "Proof Insulating MY Coop Does Nothing" because all coops are not equal. All weather situations are not equal.

But if you really want to discuss why insulation works or does not work for you, it should include photos of the coop next to the thermal imaging images. This would better allow people to see why it works or does not work or what could be improved in both your coop and the viewers. You should also include the details of the construction as well.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
Skeptical? His conclusions were wrong as he doesn't understand the basic physics behind his measurements. Pat tried to steer him right, but he wouldn't listen.

The basics behind heat balance in a coop:

Birds generate heat, the warmer it is the less they generate, the colder it is the more they generate (and the more they eat to produce that heat).

Heat is lost through the ventilation system. The greater the temperature difference the more energy that is lost. Increasing ventilation increases energy loss. Decreasing ventilation decreases energy loss.

Heat is lost through conduction of the coop surfaces. The greater the temperature difference the more energy that is lost. Insulation decreases that loss and has more energy saving potential as the temperature difference increases.

Heat balance is the temperature that you get when taking into account all of these factors:

bird heat + any supplemental heat - ventilation loss - building conduction losses = a given temperature in the coop for a given outside air temperature

Change any of these and you end up with a different temperature balance. Reducing conduction losses by adding insulation = a warmer coop. Increasing ventilation = a colder coop.

Over-ventilating can defeat the usefulness of the insulation, as there may be very little heat left to try and retain.
A minimum ventilation level is required to removed humidity from the coop (and possibly ammonia). The humidity in the coop is determined by how much water is going into the coop and how much is being extracted by the ventilation, as long the birds aren't spilling water, the amount of water going into the coop is equal to what they are drinking minus what is taken out as eggs. The amount of moisture that is extracted by the ventilation is determined by the ventilation rate and the relative humidity of the outside air. Warmer temperatures means more water in the outside air and frigid temperatures means very little water in the outside air.

Given that, in a well insulated coop that doesn't lose more heat than the birds are producing, as the outside temperatures get colder you can reduce the ventilation in your coop to maintain any given temperature, that is until you bump up against humidity or ammonia problems. At that point there is a minimum ventilation level that is required to keep the humidity (or ammonia) in check, at the cost of heat in the coop. If humidity, and not ammonia, is your controlling factor then the amount of air brought into the coop can be reduced as the temperature get very cold and has more moisture extracting potential. As it gets warmer outside, the ventilation needs to be increased as the warmer air generally has less moisture extracting potential.

 

[snowcone]

I have had chickens for 1 1/2 yrs now. I just made a coop 3 weeks ago. Last winter they roost in small trees all winter unless it got real cold then they went in the barn. They all lived except the ones that feed the critters or got hit on the road. My 10x12 coop has 4 windows that are not tight, they are just for light and to open in the summer, open eves and open gables. I might close the one gable up on the end that the roosts are on and close up some of the eves before it gets too cold. I just dont think insulation is a good idea because if it gets a little warm in there and the humidity gets high, then they go out in the run or free range, that is when then will have problems. Animals will adapted to the temp. They are in out of the wind anyhow.

 

[kiwiegg]

I think a lot of you who live in places like California and the cascades (more danger of drowning near Seattle) need to qualify what "cold" is for you. Those of us that do live in cold climates (minus 10-20 for weeks at a time) DO need to consider insulation. Sure, your chickens might sit up in trees and be OK where you live but they would freeze to death around here if they were forced to do that. Cold is all about perspective. I used to think I knew what cold was until I moved to Minnesota and many of you live in colder climates than me. I, like many posted here are not skeptics - the claim related to pics is just baloney, period. Insulation in a coop will do nothing if the building technique and materials are half-@ss. Like I said earlier, insulate all of your coop properly then use the camera, then make a claim. I suspect that the original post was really either to "ruffle feathers" for a laugh (it worked) or sell thermal imaging cameras.

 

[wildeflowers]

I think that much of the discussion on this thread would be different had the title been "Proof Insulating MY Coop Does Nothing" because all coops are not equal. All weather situations are not equal.

But he didn't insulate his coop. One piece of styrofoam on one wall does not insulation make.

bird heat + any supplemental heat - ventilation loss - building conduction losses = a given temperature in the coop for a given outside air temperature

omg, look, a mathematical formula.

I suspect that the original post was really either to "ruffle feathers" for a laugh (it worked) or sell thermal imaging cameras.

lol, I don't think "feathers are ruffled" so much as those who understand the correct way to set up experiments and quantify data wanted to ensure that those readings these posts were presented with accurate information. You may be right about the thermal imagers.​