Proof Coop Insulation Does Nothing.

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Mac, that was beautifully done. (And much better explained than my posts)

I officially nominate you to write all of my posts from now on. I will look forward to reading them

Applause applause,

Pat

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
Why thank you.


To give the OP a little credit, his basic premise that the insulation does little at high ventilation rates is correct, but his explanation was flawed.

Basing that insulation works on inside/outside temp differences is inconclusive, my un-insulated coop has similar temps as insulated ones.

The temperature difference has everything to do with it, it's physical law. There has to be a temperature difference for heat to flow through a material, the greater the temperature difference, the higher the rate of heat flow. The colder it gets outside, the more heat that is conducted through the walls of the coop. Insulation has a resistance to that thermal flow that is measured in R-value.

R-value of insulation (in imperial units) is = 1 square foot hour degree per BTU

A 100 sq ft framed wall with sheetrock and without insulation has a R value of approximately 3.
At a 10 degree temperature difference the energy lost through the wall is 100 * 10 / 3 = 333.3 btu/hr.
At a 20 degree temperature difference the energy lost through the wall is 100 * 20 / 3 = 666.6 btu/hr.
Doubling the temperature difference doubles the energy losses.



He also asserted that:

I've showed you with the thermal imager that insulation is not doing much, so the conclusion is sealing air leaks and protruding metals are the real offenders. One could seal (inside/outside) and sheetrock the inside and have similar effects as batt insulated.

A sealed wall cavity has an R value of around 1, much, much less resistance to heat flow than fiberglass batting.

Adding high performance R-15 insulation to a 2x4 wall cavity increases that framed wall to an R-Value of 18.
Using the same example our energy loss at 10 degrees is now only 56 btu/hr.
At 20 degrees it is 112 btu/hr, quite a difference over that uninsulated wall.​

 

[Intheswamp]

Chickens-246, I'm not re-entering this debate, all of ya'll are much more brainer than I am. But, I do want to ask you something....could you take some more pictures of your chickens....those *are* neat pictures!!!

Ed

 

[Carrie Lynn]

Patandchickens,
I just started reading this thread.
Regarding your post on 11/17 about vent with a probe...

good joke!

 

[6chickens in St. Charles]

Permission to reprint the heat-photo of the three chickens? That is one COOL shot!

BTW, we insulated the ceiling and walls for sound, it really does make a difference. We love our rooster, and though his voice is more Jose Carerras than SpongeBobSquarePants, he is less than 100feet from our neighbors bedroom window. Even though neighbor Joe claims, "Don't worry, it doesn't bother me at all", we felt it was the neighborly thing to do, because our rooster crows at 00:GOD:00, whenever an ambulance passes through town, or a car alarm goes off, or a baby cries, etc.... the rooster crows to anything and everything.............. it can still be heard, but very muffled, and its kind of nice that way.

 

[Mrs MIA]

I too very much like the photos of the birds... it definitely shows that they can keep themselves warm, with OR without insulation in the coop.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Sorry to be grumpy, but while I would credit him for being correct IF that were his basic premise, it doesn't seem to have actually BEEN, since in his original post it clearly states "Insulation just doesn't do anything with the necessary venting" (italics mine).

It is very possible (in many situations, though not *all*) to be quite adequately ventilated and still have low enough ventilation rates that insulation still does provide benefit. (Plus which it is not just am't airflow that matters, it is also heat production and desired delta T, as you say)

Still feeling a bit cranky on the subject, sorry, but my typing fingers are still sore from yesterday's efforts

,

Pat

 

[Mac in Wisco]

Quote:
Sorry to be grumpy, but while I would credit him for being correct IF that were his basic premise, it doesn't seem to have actually BEEN, since in his original post it clearly states "Insulation just doesn't do anything with the necessary venting" (italics mine).

You are correct.

It is very possible (in many situations, though not *all*) to be quite adequately ventilated and still have low enough ventilation rates that insulation still does provide benefit. (Plus which it is not just am't airflow that matters, it is also heat production and desired delta T, as you say)

Of course. The thing about ventilation is that control needs to be dynamic to achieve the conditions that you want given the variables in weather. Fixed, passive ventilation of any specific size is only going to be "correct" under specific weather conditions.

The other thread where the gal is asking if she has adequate ventilation in her coop is a good example. Adequate ventilation for when; today, next week, the middle of winter?

Her ventilation may be marginal right now with temperatures in the 30's at night, but would probably be more than adequate when the outside drop 10 or 20 degrees, and way more than necessary in the middle of winter if her temps should drop to sub zero.​

 

[Mac in Wisco]

- delete double post -

 

[patandchickens]

Most certainly you need to *manage* your ventilation (whether it is a computer doing the managing, or you adjusting things manually when you're out at the coop).

That's an interesting point about the semantics of "adequate ventilation".

I guess usually when people ask "does my coop have adequate ventilation" I (personally) tend to interpret that as, "does my coop have adequate ventilation *capacity*". I.e., if I had all my vents all the way open, woudl that be enough for whatever my maximum needs are likely to be.

But you are right, the question of "am I using adequate ventilation at the moment" really is a somewhat different question. (One that is a lot harder to answer, other than to say "go out there and sniff and feel things and look for condensation where it oughtn't be, and use that as a guide... or buy a hygrometer and something to measure ammonia"

Pat