pullet limping open mouth breathing

[Bens-Hens]

I know some people do not like to jump to the Marek's conclusion to quickly, but from reading what I have read so far, I am thinking it sounds very similar to the symptoms we saw, and it was diagnosed as Marek's by an avian vet.

I am no expert on the disease, but we have had it here. They can present as these kinds of symptoms at a varying age range, sometimes in the 6-10 week range at the easiest, but also just before or just after they begin to lay. I have read it is often triggered by stress when the immune system is most vulnerable. It can also be present with no sign until the bird is in it's 'old age'.

My amateur advice would be to separate any birds showing signs and keep the food and water up to them. (Transmission in the flock is almost unavoidable at this point if it is MD, but you don't want any healthy birds picking on sick birds)

I would continue to monitor symptoms and research what you see. If it is MD, some birds have recovered to live on, some have natural immunity and unfortunately, some will die. I would strongly advise if possible to have a necropsy done if a bird does die. Here, they can be done for free at a specialist (via a vet appointment) if it is suspected of ding of a transmittable disease. You may find the same there. Once you know for sure if you have it or not, you can take measures to manage what ever has caused your birds to get ill.

Outside the Marek's Disease box, some things to consider.

Have they been wormed?
Were they vaccinated?
Did you home hatch or purchase live birds?
Have you brought an new birds to your flock?

 

[hogster160]

The pullet who isn't walking is separated, the other two are having no problems other than the eye, and are still with the flock. They have not. Been wormed, they are all 4-5 months old and have only been outside for about 8 weeks. None of the birds were vaccinated. They are all hatchery birds and no new birds have been brought in. Well let me rephrase that. The 9 were hatchery, no vaccine, then we got 6 more from Rural King 4 weeks later. They were separated for 12 weeks or so, then all were moved to the garage in their separate brooder boxes. Then 4 weeks ago all put into the coop, they are now 22 weeks old. We had no deaths, and no health issues observed.

I will be having the original ee put down and a necropsy done. Also will be checking everyone else over daily for problems.

My neighbor had chickens about 8 years ago, he lost some to predators and the others just died, and they weren't very old. He said they died because no one told him to give them oyster shell. I thought, wow lack of oyster shell will do that? We are both obviously new to chickens. Now that I'm going through this, I'm betting it was probably MD. I plan on talking with him more today. I want to find out how his chickens were before they died. The lady across the road from me has chickens. When I talked to her she said nothing of sick chicken. But I saw several who were limping. I thought bumble foot. Now I'm not so sure.

I'm going to make some phone calls today. I was told Texas A&M can do blood testing if I can find someone to draw the blood. So I may try that. Purdue also does some testing, possible culling and necropsy. I need to find out what the best options are for her and the others.

Thanks for sharing you experience and I'm so sorry we all have to go through this.


Deb

 

[Bens-Hens]

Sounds like you have a sound plan in place. If you can have the first bird live tested it could be beneficial, just in case it is something else that may be treatable.

It is a horrible thing to work with, and I like many others never knew about it until it was already here.

I am not sure how much research you have done on MD, but it is highly transmissible, and long lasting. I had read that it can live on the open ground for 62 weeks. It travels on dander, so it can carry very far on a light breeze. It is not transmitted through eggs, but it can be transmitted on the first day if the egg is hatched by an infected broody.

If it is MD, tracking down the origin in your case could be very hard. we worked very hard to try clear it from our property and to date (5 months) have not seen any recurrence symptoms, but I can't say it's gone with complete confidence until our next batch of pullets are laying. Clearing your property will be a fruitless battle if it has come from over the fence or across the street.

If this is another case of MD, it may pay to consider another batch of vaccinated birds to follow up on your current flock. (if this is confirmed). There are ways to live with this disease, but having a non vaccinated flock, it is highly likely to sustain loss. Planing a jump on replacements will help get the flock numbers back up to your desired size.

Then, even thought the disease is still around, you will sustain very few if any losses. Down side is that you should keep a closed flock, and not sell any live birds, as it will contribute to spreading of MD. Even though vaccinated birds don't show symptoms, they may still be carrier's.

 

[hogster160]

Sounds like you have a sound plan in place. If you can have the first bird live tested it could be beneficial, just in case it is something else that may be treatable.

It is a horrible thing to work with, and I like many others never knew about it until it was already here.

I am not sure how much research you have done on MD, but it is highly transmissible, and long lasting. I had read that it can live on the open ground for 62 weeks. It travels on dander, so it can carry very far on a light breeze. It is not transmitted through eggs, but it can be transmitted on the first day if the egg is hatched by an infected broody.

If it is MD, tracking down the origin in your case could be very hard. we worked very hard to try clear it from our property and to date (5 months) have not seen any recurrence symptoms, but I can't say it's gone with complete confidence until our next batch of pullets are laying. Clearing your property will be a fruitless battle if it has come from over the fence or across the street.

If this is another case of MD, it may pay to consider another batch of vaccinated birds to follow up on your current flock. (if this is confirmed). There are ways to live with this disease, but having a non vaccinated flock, it is highly likely to sustain loss. Planing a jump on replacements will help get the flock numbers back up to your desired size.

Then, even thought the disease is still around, you will sustain very few if any losses. Down side is that you should keep a closed flock, and not sell any live birds, as it will contribute to spreading of MD. Even though vaccinated birds don't show symptoms, they may still be carrier's.

At this point I'm really not sure I am going to continue with chickens. Seems like I won't have much success. Maybe, if I have any that live, I will keep them, but I highly doubt that I will buy more. Doesn't make any sense in my mind to try and fight this. But I am kind of wondering, if I get chicks from the lady down the road, if she is having success with hers, if I will have success with hers. I just really don't know. I love having chickens. But the deck seems so stacked against it at the moment. Lots of maybes...

Seems like this week all I have done is researched it. I didn't know about it before I joined this site, we've never had chickens before. I was afraid of this when I red it, only because it sounds so dire. And the reality is...it is dire.

How do I not spread it? I need to go and get feed this week, how do I not take it with me?

I am presuming the eggs are still good to eat? We have no rooster, so no problem there, no fertile eggs going out. I am a closed flock. I just don't know how not to take it with me, or my car, or my kids. Since I have one bird in the house atm, its now in my house. What do I use to clean all this with so its not here anymore? Will it stay in my house with no host for 62 weeks? Gah, so many question! And not a lot of option. Sad day.

Thanks again for helping me.

Deb

 

[Bens-Hens]

I know exactly how you feel, I honestly do. We have a blog type thread in my signature, the first couple of pages talks about how we played this hand. I am happy to offer what ever help I can. I was just reading the other Marek's thread and saw you have been getting heaps of info there too.

As for the feed store, I don't know. We had feed in storage, but we started again with our flock, so we didn't for the the feed shop for months. Maybe just have some clean shoes or flip flops just for going out, not for the coop?

Cleaning can be done with a few cheap home made concoctions, or you can buy specific products. I bought little sachets of a product called Virkon S (AU$14.50, 50g sachet, makes about 8l of disinfectant) it is rated to kill MD. I used that a few times, as well as a lime wash, and a few other home made concoctions.

It is not passed vertically, and eggs may be eaten. We did not eat any birds with it though. Our's entered through some rescue birds, came from a commercial layer facility. They were vaccinated, but were carriers.

There are lots of options, just some are not nice. I know it's heart breaking, and it feels like everything is buried in this invisible coating of horror (see, I have been there!)

IMO, as it is, the worst you could do is give your birds away and pass it on. Other than that I feel it is manageable. You could let it run it's course, the strongest will survive. Eat eggs, maybe not eat the meat (if your thinking that way)

You could replace lost birds with vaccinated birds, or known survivors like the ones from over the road, or hatch from your survivor hens (if you had a rooster)

You could cull and start again, a very hard choice to make, especially if you have a larger flock.

I guess for now, just make any that fall ill as comfortable as possible. I have read that some recover, but we felt that there came a point where we were only prolonging a sick bird.

I wish you and your family the very best, happy to help. I am no pro, just picked a few things up with our experience.

 

[hogster160]

Thank you so much. I have been on the other MD boards and yes getting lots of help. I appreciate it all. My mind seems to want to change off the course we made. To cull and stop. I am seeing that people can keep chickens and manage this disease. So maybe. I really want to say yes lol. I think I need to get over this and find out for sure first. Then make up my mind as to how much I really want to invest in this. Because chickens are an investment. Not just some small farm animal that take nothing and gives something.

Thanks for the info on Vikron S. I've searched it and saved the info, will read it later today.

Hopefully I can help others with this as you all have helped me, thanks again!

Deb

 

[Bens-Hens]

You're more than welcome. Least I can do.