puppy chicken killer

[PeepsInc]

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You are absolutely right... some folks don't like this - and that is putting it mildly. PLEASE don't ever get a dog, and if you currently own one, do him/her the favor and find him a decent home with someone who is willing to learn how to properly train an animal. Sure, you might convince the dog he doesn't care for deer, but you will also show him that his "owner/pack-supposed-leader" is absolutely not to be trusted and his discipline actions are NUTS. Hmmmm... I wonder if I shoved a dead animal in your face and kicked the living daylights out of you, would you respect me or just hate dead animals in your face?

E-collars can be very effective, however timing is crucial. I'm not discouraging you in any way of using them for this purpose, but do a bit of reading on them and make sure when you nick - it is at the right time and at a high enough setting that the dog is not "nagged" but "gets the message" immediately.

I have extremely well trained dogs thank you,and never had to use such behavior modification on a dog. My father raised hound dogs when I was growing up. He held grand champion many times.In certain areas of the US you can not allow dogs to run deer.(It's against the law) These guys were dealing with dogs that had one thing on there mind,HUNT. They were bread & trained to hunt & kill one type of animal. It was a means of breaking a dog from a habit that would eventually get it killed. (or sent to a shelter,or given up. As I read someone on here a week ago talking about doing with there dog. The idea behind such training,is that the dog isn't aware your doing it,and will still see you as the pack leader. I've had dog trainers in my family since WW2. My grand father trained dogs for the military. I do know a bit about the subject. I wont rain on your puppy parade again...SORRY

 

[Cara]

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If you want a common sense approach i'll give it to you: don't keep chickens and dogs in the same area, period. If you don't protect your chickens something is going to get them whether it is your own dog, someone else's, or a wild predator. Why even risk keeping a predator with a prey animal?! If you can't be bothered to keep both safe, pick one or the other or take the consequences.

 

[G Wiz Ranch]

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While that may be a "common sense approach", I didn't ask for a common sense approach, and it is not a solution to the problem but a way avoiding the problem. I asked for an "organized and methodical training approach", people here claim that there are training methods, I want to hear about those instead of putting down other suggestions. I don't need to hear them, I don't have a problem, my training method works fine and my dog co mingles with the chickens just fine. I have NO problems with tying a dead chicken around my dogs neck, IT WORKED.



I would like for the OP to hear a solid training method, since most everyone seems to know what NOT to do I am hoping that someone can provide a REAL training method, not an avoidance plan or a supervisory plan, but a method that STOPs the dog from killing chickens. So let hear it.

 

[2boxers]

JesseJames-totally non judgmental reply here: do what you have to do. I am very lucky that my dogs could care less about my chickens. I'm just saying that you don't have to kick the dog or hit the dog. I am not opposed to penning or chaining the dog, at least until it's old enough to comprehend that it can't kill or eat the chickens.

I don't know how I would handle a chicken killer dog. I hope I never have to find out.

 

[Chic-n-farmer]

Would somebody please explain to me why a dog would not want to be near/ tied to a dead chicken when every dog, I have ever had, will roll in any dead critter it can find??
Seriously??

I have heard all my life that the method works. Never tried it.

The method that works for me is to restrain my chicken-killing dog.
Either by fence or chain.

 

[G Wiz Ranch]

I don't know the science behind the dead chicken tied to their neck, I can only surmise that the dog gets so sick of it being there that they don't want to have anything to do with them when it comes off. Maybe, the dog is smart enough to realize that when he kills it he's stuck with it. I don't know, but I do know it works, and I have never met anyone that says it doesn't. I know of DOZENS of folks that used this method, some on more than one dog. Our current dog learned this lesson and she now has the privilege to run free on our ranch, no fences, no shock collars, no pens, no runs and she stays clear of the chickens and ducks. And after she got bit by one of the Donkeys last year, she stays clear of them. She is not too fond of owls either, a "great horned owl" tried to carry her away one night, the three gashes in her back were a tall tell sign, she still wont go out at night by herself.

 

[Jameberlin]

To the O.P., there are portions of this post pertaining to you, my advice to you, etc. and other portions NOT pertaining to you, or your situation. I wish you the best of luck with your puppy.

A dog can be trained to ignore chickens, it takes diligence, follow through and sound discipline the dog can understand. The only dog who can be trusted around chickens is one who ignores them completely, or who is avoidant. Any dog who shows any kind of interest in a chicken has the capability of killing it, either on purpose or by accident. Even dogs mothering chicks can kill them with over zealous licking or accidentally stepping on them.

Dogs are a lot like children, toddlers, really. They see something, get an impulse and react. They do feel guilt, but once the moment is gone, so is the guilt. They don't think "maybe he's punishing me for something i did an hour ago." They can't think like that, they don't have the capability.

The techniques of beating a dog, tying a dead chicken etc. after the fact will not register with a dog, he will NOT understand why you're doing what you're doing... He may learn not to mess with chickens because they're unpleasant, but he'll also most definitely learn not to trust you because you're the instigator of all of it. They'll see YOU as the enemy, with the birds as an accessory. This may work great for some people, but the end result will be a dog who mistrusts people and has a very real danger of becoming dangerous.

My rule of thumb is to treat a dog like a two year old, discipline must be immediate, but not so harsh the dog feels threatened (emotionally or physically). The second part is to WATCH the dog any time they're in a situation that could be dangerous to them or other animals, just like a child. The third part is confinement (please don't crate your toddler, though

)... the second part of confinement is basic separation when the dog can't be properly supervised and disciplined. Just like you put baby gates up at the top of the stairs to keep a toddler from falling, you MUST create appropriate barriers for your dog to roam and play if he's to remain safe and not be a risk to prey animals.

I don't really buy the whole "don't jump on people for xyz." Beating an animal is illegal in most countries, and imo, completely unethical. Beating an animal to teach them something is akin to beating a toddler to teach them it's bed time, all it does is teach them fear.

Dogs have a very limited capacity to understand the world, the key to successful training of a happy, well balanced dog is to understand how their mind works, and incorporate THAT into your training method.

Basically, get the dog to see you as the dominant pack member, get the dog to the position that he submits to you, not through fear, but respect. Any dog who is intelligent (especially Shepherds) has the very real capacity to become one who is a fear biter, which is the MOST DANGEROUS and UNPREDICTABLE kind of dog.

My method is firm touch to distract the dog, if that isn't enough, add a NO, if that still isn't enough the dog must be rolled on his back. I've even gotten myself to the point where i'm on the ground, laying on a dog growling. This is what a dog understands, it's what a dog will respect. If a dog is so focused on submitting to you, he has no time for chickens, or anything else. Like i said before though, reaction time MUST be immediate, and you must discipline the dog EVERY TIME he misbehaves. Showing ANY interest in the birds, even looking at them is a "no-no", and must be corrected. Over time, the dog will get it. If you need to, keep him/her on a leash so you can get to her if there is an infraction. I think i read your dog is a shepherd cross, if that's the case, be sure to keep him/her actively stimulated as these dogs are very highly intelligent and do not train well when bored. They tend to attach to ONE person, and that person has to be VERY involved in keeping them inline. Also, make every human in the family takes an active roll in discipline, the dog must learn that he is on the BOTTOM of the totem pole, to avoid any problems with only obeying one master and willfully ignoring everyone else.

Best of luck to you, and i'm sorry for your lost birds.

 

[SangaChicken]

Okay, so I have to jump back in here as much as I'm going to likely regret it. For the poster who is posting about dog pyschology.. have you ever been a dog? Then how can you possibly beging to "understand" their throught process?

I find it amazing that the SAME people who will blow a raccon to shreds for doing what comes natural to him, scream animal cruelty when it's suggested that someone physically reprimand a dog. If it was someone else's dog attacking your chickens, what would your opinion be?

Years ago people used to be a lot harder on kids. Now it's unacceptable to hardly touch your own children, and look where society is going. Seriously.

I don't know what sort of dogs you all have, but my dogs certainly do feel guilt. They feel displeasure at having disapointed me.

If a shock collar works (Proven fact on TONS of dogs) then why wouldn't any other training method that correlates something unpleasant to an action?

I know that some of these "cruel" tactics you're bashing in here have WORKED on my dogs, continue to work, and are tested. No dogs were harmed, no dog turned on me because of my cruel and unusual treatment, and I no longer lose chickens.

We own a horseback riding school, and we teach the bazillion kids who have come through our school, when a horse acts up.. you have 3 seconds to do everything in your physical power to kill the horse. The idea, is that the horse will think he's going to be killed. After three seconds, it's back to business as usual. We have 26 of the most laid back, kid gentle horses you can find.. you can put a 6 month old on them. Why? Because they respect humans, and know that acting out comes with consequences. Are they beaten? No. Are they afraid of people? No, they love people. Do they understand that acting out will land them in a world of short lived hurt? Sure. The result is, they don't. We routinely turn down blank checks for our school ponies. They're priceless.

The point being.. you can be as sanctimonious as you'd like about animal cruelty and animal care, but they are still animals. However loved and cherished, one hair on an animals head is not worth a human life. Animals who do not respect their owners are a danger to their human owners, as they will do things that may directly or inadvertently put the human in danger. So even if it means usin corporal punishment, on a limited basis, to properly correct and train your dog.. this should not be unacceptable. Any anyone who owns a dog that might "turn on you if it's treated improperly during a reprimand" should probably get a new dog. I won't hesitate to knock a dog across a room if it's hurting another animal, and absolutely nothing on my property is afraid of me or has ever threatened to turn on me.

You can check out a multitude of pictures of my animals at www.sangaparties.com and see their condition and demeanors in candid shots, and you tell me if there is any hint of animal abuse or cruelty going on.

We are not horse whispers, dog whisperers, chicken whisperers or any other type of no restraints, no corrections, no physical punishments facility. We are the owners, masters and providers for our furry and feathered family members.. and as such, we require our animals to behave. If this means an animal is smacked on the hind quarters every once inawhile, or is subjected to temporary humiliation to get the job accomplished... it's done. And thats another thing! Dogs absolutely have a memory, draw correlations and feel guilt. If dogs couldn't use some level of deductive reasoning.. the invisible fence company wouldn't be in business.

Okay, off my soap box now. You all in disagreement can go back to negotiating with your pets.

 

[horsejody]

Well, I don't know what works for everybody else, but I can tell you what has worked for me and what hasn't. Years ago, my family had 2 German Shepherd mixes. They got loose and killed my mother's chickens. Her screaming, hitting them with dead chickens and tying dead chickens around their necks didn't help. Maybe it does for some dogs, but it didn't for these. I am guessing that the stinky carcass tied around their neck is not a deterrent, but the way humans avoid them and appear to detest them while the stinky carcass is tied around their neck is a deterrent. Dogs have some reasoning, but they don't think like people. I suppose it depends on the dog, how much the dog wants to please you and how strong the prey drive is. For some dogs, chasing and killing small animals is like heroine or meth. One time is enough to get them addicted regardless of the consequences. They have a hard time overcoming the urge. Dogs with a lower prey drive just don't find it so irresistable and are more likely to respond. My current dog is a Lhasa Apso. Yes, I know they look like foofy little stuffed animals. However, they were bred to be small guard dogs, not lap dogs. I think that many of the guarding breeds have a bit less of the prey drive. One thing to consider with many guard type breeds is that physical punishment can severely backfire. Guard dogs often have some of the prey drive and pack desire bred out of them. The former makes them more likely to be good with small animals, and the latter makes them less worried about pleasing you if you break their trust with physical punishment. The reason my Lhasa is good with the chickens is because of many things that we are consistant with:
1. No chasing of small animals is allowed - including squirrels and all that fun stuff in the yard
2. Ignoring small animals is rewarded. If he seems excited over seeing a chicken, squirrel or whatever, I tell him no. When he is focusing on me instead of the interesting small animal, he is lavished with praise.
3. We hatched eggs in the house. He was always with me when I checked the bator - that had the added benefit that he actually alerted me on more than one occasion that the temp in the bator was way off. He saved my hatch!
4. We brooded chicks in the house. He was encouraged to be in the same room with me while I ateended to the chicks. He could watch but not touch. It was the same as before. Excitement about them was discouraged. Aloofness was encouraged. We left the silky brooder on the floor and he was able to just watch them. It got to the point that it was very relaxing for him to lay on the floor and watch silkies. I know they are evil, but they were good for the dog.
5. The dog does chores with us everyday. He has since he was 8 weeks old. The horses, cats and chickens aren't exciting. They're old news and just part of the landscape.
6. The dog is rarely left unsupervised with chickens. I trust him, but I do understand that he is a dog. Dogs get bored and look for things to do, and they might just go touch a chicken looking for something to do.

These things may or may not work with any given dog. I have personally found that guarding type breeds as opposed to hunting or herding types are more likely good with chickens, and low key, aloof dogs are definitely better than bouncy, hyper ones.

I hope the OP finds a workable solution for their situation. Every dog and every situation is different.

 

[PeepsInc]

I know all of you THINK you know something about handling dogs.........Let me just be clear. I've forgotten more about it than most of you will ever know. Avoidance is not a training method. Avoidance is what starts the problems. I adopted a vicious beagle that couldn't be trusted around any human or animal with out this dog turning into the tasmanian devil. They called him the jerk hound from hell. He'd attack anyone or anything that went near him while he was eating,sleeping or playing. Today he's a passive member of our family named Buddy. This dog was brought to me,knowing he'd be put to death other wise. He was 7 when I got him 1 year ago............It's abuse when your harming an animal with out cause. It's training when you HAVE TO be ruff with them to make them a valuable member of a house hold or society. It's easy to say you shouldn't do something, If you've never been faced with that problem. It's another to offer real solutions.....Well Here's a pic of that killer dog 1 year later. Now known as Buddy!