Puppy Killing Birds

[Everose]

I feel like e collars are very poorly understood.
Don't crank it up and zap him like you're a psycho
There's no need to make it painful, just correct his current behavior and later on you can just use a vibration.

Dogs respond well to "punishment" because naturally there are consequences to their bad behaviors. Pack leaders will discipline their pack members, mothers will snap at puppies, alphas will demand the right to eat first, and they set personal boundaries. They can perfectly comprehend punishment for bad behaviors. Does that mean that it's the only way to teach a dog? No. Praise for absolutely every. single. good behavior is the best way to raise an obedient and well mannered dog, but don't ignore bad behavior. How is he supposed to know he's done something wrong if he isn't corrected?

I personally don't have the ability to take my puppy everywhere on a leash, he has to run free with me when I'm in the yard tending to other animals.
There has to be a negative reaction to chicken chasing and simply tugging on a leash isn't an option when he's free. So an E collar corrects the behavior when my recall is ignored (which is 50/50 because he's focused on the chickens, and also because he's only just learning it). And you absolutely cannot keep yelling "come" if he ignores you, since he will just learn to ignore that command, it becomes optional in his mind.
When he turns to come back I holler and squeal like it's the best thing he's ever done. His bad behavior is corrected while his good behavior is praised.

 

[BelovedBirds]

I feel like e collars are very poorly understood.
Don't crank it up and zap him like you're a psycho
There's no need to make it painful, just correct his current behavior and later on you can just use a vibration.

Dogs respond well to "punishment" because naturally there are consequences to their bad behaviors. Pack leaders will discipline their pack members, mothers will snap at puppies, alphas will demand the right to eat first, and they set personal boundaries. They can perfectly comprehend punishment for bad behaviors. Does that mean that it's the only way to teach a dog? No. Praise for absolutely every. single. good behavior is the best way to raise an obedient and well mannered dog, but don't ignore bad behavior. How is he supposed to know he's done something wrong if he isn't corrected?

I personally don't have the ability to take my puppy everywhere on a leash, he has to run free with me when I'm in the yard tending to other animals.
There has to be a negative reaction to chicken chasing and simply tugging on a leash isn't an option when he's free. So an E collar corrects the behavior when my recall is ignored (which is 50/50 because he's focused on the chickens, and also because he's only just learning it). And you absolutely cannot keep yelling "come" if he ignores you, since he will just learn to ignore that command, it becomes optional in his mind.
When he turns to come back I holler and squeal like it's the best thing he's ever done. His bad behavior is corrected while his good behavior is praised.

I disagree entirely. Positive reinforcement is the best way to train a dog. These collars and contraptions are nothing but short cuts. Punishing an animal doesnt work. You're only going to teach fear in response to negative behaviour. Instead, with positive reinforcement, encourage them to learn and WANT to please you. Not out of fear. Out of WANTING to obey you.

There is absolutely no need to use any of these contraptions on a dog when, rather, proper training can achieve a better result. These collars don't have to inflict pain in order to create fear. It is a very unpleasant uncomfortable feeling, and it is generally considered an inhumane and outdated method.

 

[Everose]

I disagree entirely.

I don't think you do. ↓

Praise for absolutely every. single. good behavior is the best way to raise an obedient and well mannered dog

Positive reinforcement is the best way to train a dog.

But I guess that's where agreeing ends.

These collars and contraptions are nothing but short cuts.

What's wrong with shortcuts?

Punishing an animal doesnt work. You're only going to teach fear in response to negative behaviour.

Fear?
My dog is learning not to chase chickens because the zap is an uncomfortable reminder, not because he's afraid of it. If I were to really crank it up, maybe. But if he wanted to he could totally take it like a man, he could ignore my reminder. But he knows that if he feels that zap, stops, and comes to me he'll be praised and treated for having the right response.
He's not afraid of the chickens, he's not afraid of me, and he's not afraid of the zap, he is listening to a physical command, it's no different than if I were to tap or tug him.
A dog that understands what is expected of it is always happier than a dog who is confused, a dog who knows his boundaries ultimately feels safer because they have a calm confident leader.

Instead, with positive reinforcement, encourage them to learn and WANT to please you. Not out of fear. Out of WANTING to obey you. There is absolutely no need to use any of these contraptions on a dog when, rather, proper training can achieve a better result. These collars don't have to inflict pain in order to create fear.

Positive reinforcement is key to all training, but that doesn't always make a dog want to please you.
I have three independent thinkers. An Aussie, and two LGDs, all of them have received only positive reinforcement training and all of them will look at me, size me up, and make a decision. Sometimes pleasing me is more appealing, other times, running away or chasing that thing they smelled is the better option, since their only consideration thus far in life has been to do what feels best. They don't respect me, I'm background noise. My commands are optional to them.

It is a very unpleasant uncomfortable feeling,

I would agree, that's what it's supposed to be in the beginning, but only in the beginning. And it's most certainly never appropriate to hurt them.

and it is generally considered an inhumane and outdated method.

Not by a large number of canine behaviorists.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I disagree entirely. Positive reinforcement is the best way to train a dog. These collars and contraptions are nothing but short cuts. Punishing an animal doesnt work. You're only going to teach fear in response to negative behaviour. Instead, with positive reinforcement, encourage them to learn and WANT to please you. Not out of fear. Out of WANTING to obey you.

There is absolutely no need to use any of these contraptions on a dog when, rather, proper training can achieve a better result. These collars don't have to inflict pain in order to create fear. It is a very unpleasant uncomfortable feeling, and it is generally considered an inhumane and outdated method.

There’s no fear if introduced right. In fact, my boy gets excited to have his e collar put on because it means we’re going to have off leash fun. We tried all the positive things, long line, cookies, etc. and it didn’t work for him. Now with one tap on VIBRATE NOT shock and he comes back immediately. Also e collars today are FAR different than they used to be. They do NOT shock the hell out of them. In fact, the one I have specifically has blunted stimulation and has like 100 different Stim levels plus vibrate. You can’t even feel the lower ones, I’ve tried it. He used to have a different brand, a cheapy one, and that one I believe actually shocked and hurt so we switched brands specifically so he WOULD NOT be hurt. If you use them right, they’re very useful tools and they DO NOT cause fear or pain. If the dog is scared then you’re doing it wrong.

 

[Toothpick]

Lock the birds up or get rid of the dog. My birds don’t run wild because my dog would chase them relentlessly.

 

[Everose]

There’s no fear if introduced right. In fact, my boy gets excited to have his e collar put on because it means we’re going to have off leash fun. We tried all the positive things, long line, cookies, etc. and it didn’t work for him. Now with one tap on VIBRATE NOT shock and he comes back immediately. Also e collars today are FAR different than they used to be. They do NOT shock the hell out of them. In fact, the one I have specifically has blunted stimulation and has like 100 different Stim levels plus vibrate. You can’t even feel the lower ones, I’ve tried it. He used to have a different brand, a cheapy one, and that one I believe actually shocked and hurt so we switched brands specifically so he WOULD NOT be hurt. If you use them right, they’re very useful tools and they DO NOT cause fear or pain. If the dog is scared then you’re doing it wrong.

What brand do you use?

 

[ShrekDawg]

What brand do you use?

E Collar Technology’s Mini Educator

 

[ShrekDawg]

It’s expensive but well worth it. They have ones with a bigger distance range and stuff too but yeah.

https://www.ecollar.com/products/et-300-mini-educator-e-collar-1-2-mile-remote-dog-trainer

Slightly cheaper on Chewy

https://www.chewy.com/educator-by-e...MIgqXrm6vn-QIV0ciUCR20ewLVEAQYAyABEgIMOvD_BwE

 

[Everose]

It’s expensive but well worth it. They have ones with a bigger distance range and stuff too but yeah.

https://www.ecollar.com/products/et-300-mini-educator-e-collar-1-2-mile-remote-dog-trainer

Slightly cheaper on Chewy

https://www.chewy.com/educator-by-e...MIgqXrm6vn-QIV0ciUCR20ewLVEAQYAyABEgIMOvD_BwE

Nice!
I need a long range one for my boy. He looooves to run around on my 20 acres.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Nice!
I need a long range one for my boy. He looooves to run around on my 20 acres.

This one has a half mile range but they have one with a mile range as well.