Puppy Killing Birds

[akf93]

Help!

We got a 4 month old Mini Aussie a few weeks ago to be a barn dog/outside dog with the intention of having a presence with the birds to ward off predators. The barn is right beside the coop. He’s out during the day and kenneled at night. His breeder had hundreds of birds. He’s been outside with us and the birds since we got him. Lots of exposure and no signs of issues.

Well… yesterday he killed a 9 week old guinea. And today, a 9 week old Silkie is missing. And I saw him attacking a Polish.

I’m devastated! I’m not new to obedience training dogs. I have many years of training experience. He gets walked daily. He has mental stimulation toys. And three small kids and another dog (that stays by the house) to play with! But I don’t know how to handle this. He’s the most perfect puppy otherwise. He’s fantastic! It’s all play. I mean, they’re moving squeaky toys. No signs of aggression whatsoever. But I can’t keep losing birds.

What do I do??

 

[Everose]

Help!

We got a 4 month old Mini Aussie a few weeks ago to be a barn dog/outside dog with the intention of having a presence with the birds to ward off predators. The barn is right beside the coop. He’s out during the day and kenneled at night. His breeder had hundreds of birds. He’s been outside with us and the birds since we got him. Lots of exposure and no signs of issues.

Well… yesterday he killed a 9 week old guinea. And today, a 9 week old Silkie is missing. And I saw him attacking a Polish.

I’m devastated! I’m not new to obedience training dogs. I have many years of training experience. He gets walked daily. He has mental stimulation toys. And three small kids and another dog (that stays by the house) to play with! But I don’t know how to handle this. He’s the most perfect puppy otherwise. He’s fantastic! It’s all play. I mean, they’re moving squeaky toys. No signs of aggression whatsoever. But I can’t keep losing birds.

What do I do??

I have an Aussie who used to kill my birds, it wasn't aggressive, it was play, she did it when I wasn't looking. For her the best thing was to hang it on her neck and shame her. I hated it, but she obviously hated it more. She hasn't killed a duck, chicken, or guinea since. I think since she's not a cold-blooded killer it made her feel badly when I was displeased, if she had done it rebelliously I would've treated her like an LGD because it's not in their nature to kill their livestock.
Anyone with LGDs will tell you to toss the bird at your dog and any time contact is made you should yell "my birds! You don't touch my birds!" but...punishment is the last resort imao.
Keep working with him around the chickens. No play happens around chickens, play should happen in a completely different place unassociated with your poultry. Keep his focus on you when there's poultry around. He should look to you for all his cues, and eventually since you, as his leader, do not approve of playing with birds he will view them as yours and will not cross those lines.

Here's some quotes from @Pollo Blanco who helped me with my aussie.

BAT; Behavior Aversion Training
Basically clicker treat training.

Stim collar can be good, much harder to do properly and your best to hire a professional to get you started.

Has your dog completed Control off Leash training?

How long will your dog do a Drop Stay?

You can train your dog to do anything, but it takes time and consistency.

Here's my Aussie with the ducklings. He is also an agility champion, but I have not yet trained him to herd. Both of our dogs are trained to not harass the ducks. View attachment 2551651

The clinical term for that behavior is 'Frustrated greeter'.

Went through a lot of that with my dog when he was a puppy.

Keeping them on the leash as you approach the thing that is triggering them and click/treat before they go over threshold, walk away, repeat. Soon you will be able to make a full approach without the dog going over threshold.

My Aussies took off after a black bear whilst hiking up a logging road last summer.

I was really happy to have put their stim collars on before we left the vehicle.

We were both calling them while I fiddled with the buttons and the power level. Stim level varies from dog to dog and one needs very little (normal situation) and the rescue needs just a bit more. 'Tapped' the 'puppy' with the moderate stim and then cranked it up to 40 and tapped the rescue.
'YIPE!'
'YIPE!'

and two Aussies came running back down the road as fast as they had run up!

The plan that day was to not have them chase deer.

If you ever come across a swath about four feet wide torn through the blackberries, it was most likely a bear!

Never too late to train a dog.
If the dog comes every time, you can forgo the extra long lead until you are doing training for not wandering off.

Clickers are cheap; about $2 at the pet store. The clickers are great because it becomes the reinforcement for the behavior; the instant the behavior happens, you click and treat the dog.
Get one of those spiral bracelets that are used for keychains to keep your clicker in your hand, and a treat bag you can attach to your belt loop and your set!

https://www.training-your-dog-and-you.com/Behavior_Adjustment_Training.html

Both of my dogs are ten, and they leaned how to behave around ducks eight months ago. One I have trained from a puppy, and he's definitely a rebel. The other we got as a 18 month old rescue, and he had very little training, and a host of fears that we needed to work through.

The value of being able to instantly reward your puppy becomes a lifelong habit in your ten year old dog. I haven't used a clicker in five years.
Successful dog training is when the behavior becomes the reward in itself.

On a sit-stay and watching for a hand signal to return.
View attachment 2572051View attachment 2572052

 

[akf93]

I have an Aussie who used to kill my birds, it wasn't aggressive, it was play, she did it when I wasn't looking. For her the best thing was to hang it on her neck and shame her. I hated it, but she obviously hated it more. She hasn't killed a duck, chicken, or guinea since. I think since she's not a cold-blooded killer it made her feel badly when I was displeased, if she had done it rebelliously I would've treated her like an LGD because it's not in their nature to kill their livestock.
Anyone with LGDs will tell you to toss the bird at your dog and any time contact is made you should yell "my birds! You don't touch my birds!" but...punishment is the last resort imao.
Keep working with him around the chickens. No play happens around chickens, play should happen in a completely different place unassociated with your poultry. Keep his focus on you when there's poultry around. He should look to you for all his cues, and eventually since you, as his leader, do not approve of playing with birds he will view them as yours and will not cross those lines.

Here's some quotes from @Pollo Blanco who helped me with my aussie.

Thank you for your effort in going through and grabbing all these quotes!! I appreciate it! I will look into these suggestions today!

 

[BelovedBirds]

Help!

We got a 4 month old Mini Aussie a few weeks ago to be a barn dog/outside dog with the intention of having a presence with the birds to ward off predators. The barn is right beside the coop. He’s out during the day and kenneled at night. His breeder had hundreds of birds. He’s been outside with us and the birds since we got him. Lots of exposure and no signs of issues.

Well… yesterday he killed a 9 week old guinea. And today, a 9 week old Silkie is missing. And I saw him attacking a Polish.

I’m devastated! I’m not new to obedience training dogs. I have many years of training experience. He gets walked daily. He has mental stimulation toys. And three small kids and another dog (that stays by the house) to play with! But I don’t know how to handle this. He’s the most perfect puppy otherwise. He’s fantastic! It’s all play. I mean, they’re moving squeaky toys. No signs of aggression whatsoever. But I can’t keep losing birds.

What do I do??

Separate the dog and retrain. Keep him on a lead around the birds until he has learned to ignore/leave them. He had to learn boundaries.
Use positive reinforcement when he behaves correctly and give lots of praise.
Do not use punishments- stim collars are unnecessary. It will not effectively teach the dog, just give him an unpleasant feeling. It's a bandaid solution, if that. These things have no place in responsible dog training.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Thank you for your effort in going through and grabbing all these quotes!! I appreciate it! I will look into these suggestions today!

and remember, he's just doing what is natural to him! He isnt being mean or aggressive, he's just following his prey drive and playing. With time I'm sure you can get him under control, be patient with him!

 

[akf93]

Separate the dog and retrain. Keep him on a lead around the birds until he has learned to ignore/leave them. He had to learn boundaries.
Use positive reinforcement when he behaves correctly and give lots of praise.
Do not use punishments- stim collars are unnecessary. It will not effectively teach the dog, just give him an unpleasant feeling. It's a bandaid solution, if that. These things have no place in responsible dog training.

Thanks! As with all research, I’ll take everything into account and do what I think will be best for us!

 

[NatJ]

He’s out during the day and kenneled at night. His breeder had hundreds of birds. He’s been outside with us and the birds since we got him. Lots of exposure and no signs of issues.

Well… yesterday he killed a 9 week old guinea. And today, a 9 week old Silkie is missing. And I saw him attacking a Polish.

My first step would be to separate him from the birds. This would probably mean he is always on leash, or in a fenced area (without birds) or in his kennel.

It's fine if he can see and hear the birds, but he should not be able to not play with them or kill them. Right now this is a new "fun" thing he has discovered, but you really don't want it to become a habit! So no contact with birds except when you are there to supervise, for as long as it takes to works through this (probably multiple months.)

Some problems just go away as the dog grows up, if they don't become a habit, and some problems take deliberate training. I'm not sure how much of what is needed in this case.

 

[akf93]

My first step would be to separate him from the birds. This would probably mean he is always on leash, or in a fenced area (without birds) or in his kennel.

It's fine if he can see and hear the birds, but he should not be able to not play with them or kill them. Right now this is a new "fun" thing he has discovered, but you really don't want it to become a habit! So no contact with birds except when you are there to supervise, for as long as it takes to works through this (probably multiple months.)

Some problems just go away as the dog grows up, if they don't become a habit, and some problems take deliberate training. I'm not sure how much of what is needed in this case.

You’re right. Considering it’s not done aggressively and it’s not typically in the nature of a shepherd to do this, it’s probably a matter of (a lot of) time and he will outgrow it. He’s just having fun! I mean, that Silkie was basically a fuzzy little squeaky ball that moves by itself. To a puppy… HOW FUN!! Hoping with some patience we can get through this quickly!

 

[littlecoopnextdoor]

The dog was raised with other birds and likely had training around them, like others had said. positive reinforcement and keep on a lead around the birds until they learn they're her flock. don't use anything punishing as it won't help and may make your dog worse. positive, gentle training and you've got this. Aussie shepherds are great dogs, we have one at my family fam and she's gentle with all creatures (but keeps coyotes away)

 

[Geena]

it’s not typically in the nature of a shepherd to do this,

Actually shepherd dogs generally do have a strong prey drive, it IS in their nature. Prey drive is what motivates them to and makes them useful for herding, with proper guidance and training. Hopefully he will learn quickly, but don't be surprised if it takes a good while to train him to leave them alone. Best of luck with your new pup.