Puppy training advice

[reddogmaster2]

I don’t think anyone was necessarily saying that you have to do all that stuff or that the dog will be bad if you don’t or whatever but just that most dogs do at least need some form of an outlet. A lot of people think that they can just let the dog rot all day or whatever and while yes, they can and should, be trained and still expected to listen, it’s definitely a lot easier if they’ve gotten all their beans out so to speak. And also not really fair to them to keep them cooped up all the time. Once they’re trained and know the commands, yes, they should listen all the time, but when they’re still learning, it can be very hard to focus when they’re bouncing off the walls.

This sounds somewhat similar perhaps? I’ve never had a chance to try it yet but it sounds very useful so I definitely will be with future dogs haha

http://sanityshome.blogspot.com/2010/01/sit-on-dog-aka-long-down.html?m=1

https://caninelifeskills.com/sit-on-the-dog-exercise/

KDOG,

Excellent article regarding Long Down Sessions. The dominance part of the session is very important and I'm glad you pointed that out wtih the article.

I would say that over the past 20/30 years, the idea that a dog owner must be dominant has almost gone by the way side, whereas 20/30 years ago all training focused on the owner being the Alpha. I totally agree with this training philosophy.

Again, very good article and a must read to incorporate the dominance side of the Master/Dog relationship! Two Thumbs up!

 

[ShrekDawg]

KDOG,

Excellent article regarding Long Down Sessions. The dominance part of the session is very important and I'm glad you pointed that out wtih the article.

I would say that over the past 20/30 years, the idea that a dog owner must be dominant has almost gone by the way side, whereas 20/30 years ago all training focused on the owner being the Alpha. I totally agree with this training philosophy.

Again, very good article and a must read to incorporate the dominance side of the Master/Dog relationship! Two Thumbs up!

I’m glad you liked the article!

I think a lot of people misunderstand these phrases, whether intentionally or not, and think of them as cruel or as hanging the dog up by a choke collar or something, or that the goal is to inflict pain, which is not at all the intent of most people. Sure there’s some bad apples but not most. And then on the flip side, I see people saying that positive reinforcement is bribery, even if they don’t use food as the reward, or that the will never do anything without a treat, which also isn’t true because done properly, you wean the dog off treats eventually.

The ironic thing about all of this is that many of these trainers, from all sides and philosophies, advocate the same things!!! They just maybe call it by a different name. But a lot of the principles are the exact same even though they may bash the other side.

So that for me is part of why I don’t really do labels. I just do what works for the dog(s) in front of me.

And for me, that means they’re expected to listen when I tell them to and do what I ask the first time, and they have rules they have to follow. I think EVERY dog should have those. And they, hopefully, know that I’m in charge and they have to listen to me, whether somebody wants to call me the “alpha” or “leader” or some corny positive phrase or whatever, it’s the same thing. There’s structure and rules.

Now, I do try to be fair and do mostly positive reinforcement when I can, but I also know that most dogs will need corrections at some point, even if it’s just verbal. This whole thing recently if not even being able to tell your dog NO is just absurd. Would you let your kids do whatever they wanted? Well, some people would.

Anyway, I try to be fair and we still have all sorts of fun and learn tricks and play games or whatever BUT! If I ask for a command, they better listen.

With my last dog, it was hard because I constantly had family members undermining the training I was doing but hopefully with the next dog I get it will be better.

I’m constantly researching and learning despite being around dogs my entire life haha I love it

Anyway, sorry for the novel.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I’m glad you liked the article!

I think a lot of people misunderstand these phrases, whether intentionally or not, and think of them as cruel or as hanging the dog up by a choke collar or something, or that the goal is to inflict pain, which is not at all the intent of most people. Sure there’s some bad apples but not most. And then on the flip side, I see people saying that positive reinforcement is bribery, even if they don’t use food as the reward, or that the will never do anything without a treat, which also isn’t true because done properly, you wean the dog off treats eventually.

The ironic thing about all of this is that many of these trainers, from all sides and philosophies, advocate the same things!!! They just maybe call it by a different name. But a lot of the principles are the exact same even though they may bash the other side.

So that for me is part of why I don’t really do labels. I just do what works for the dog(s) in front of me.

And for me, that means they’re expected to listen when I tell them to and do what I ask the first time, and they have rules they have to follow. I think EVERY dog should have those. And they, hopefully, know that I’m in charge and they have to listen to me, whether somebody wants to call me the “alpha” or “leader” or some corny positive phrase or whatever, it’s the same thing. There’s structure and rules.

Now, I do try to be fair and do mostly positive reinforcement when I can, but I also know that most dogs will need corrections at some point, even if it’s just verbal. This whole thing recently if not even being able to tell your dog NO is just absurd. Would you let your kids do whatever they wanted? Well, some people would.

Anyway, I try to be fair and we still have all sorts of fun and learn tricks and play games or whatever BUT! If I ask for a command, they better listen.

With my last dog, it was hard because I constantly had family members undermining the training I was doing but hopefully with the next dog I get it will be better.

I’m constantly researching and learning despite being around dogs my entire life haha I love it

Anyway, sorry for the novel.

@KDOGG331 having everyone in the family handle the dog the same, using the same commands, rewards, etc., is so crucial, and goes to what @reddogmaster2 said about consistency being so important. A dog's mind is like a computer, he thinks yes/no, right/wrong, good/bad in his world. People want the dog to think in shades. Like, Today it's okay for you to jump up on me bc I'm feeling playful and wearing jeans. Tomorrow, no bc I'm dressed for a wedding. Or you can't jump on children but you can jump on hubby. Or not today bc you're muddy or I have a headache. Dogs can't think that way. It's either always okay or never okay. To jump up. To sleep on the bed. To bite. Anything. So if your family doesn't understand that and isn't on board with it ... don't get a dog until you have a place of your own. Not fair to the dog. Anything else is cruelty. My opinion anyway.

 

[EverythingDucks]

@KDOGG331 having everyone in the family handle the dog the same, using the same commands, rewards, etc., is so crucial, and goes to what @reddogmaster2 said about consistency being so important. A dog's mind is like a computer, he thinks yes/no, right/wrong, good/bad in his world. People want the dog to think in shades. Like, Today it's okay for you to jump up on me bc I'm feeling playful and wearing jeans. Tomorrow, no bc I'm dressed for a wedding. Or you can't jump on children but you can jump on hubby. Or not today bc you're muddy or I have a headache. Dogs can't think that way. It's either always okay or never okay. To jump up. To sleep on the bed. To bite. Anything. So if your family doesn't understand that and isn't on board with it ... don't get a dog until you have a place of your own. Not fair to the dog. Anything else is cruelty. My opinion anyway.

I've always trained the dogs new tricks and obedience, and then tell everyone else how to do each command, and what is ok and not ok. It's important for the dogs to listen to them as well.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

I've always trained the dogs new tricks and obedience, and then tell everyone else how to do each command, and what is ok and not ok. It's important for the dogs to listen to them as well.

That is the best way to do it! It helps if everyone in the family listens and cooperates. I have an adult child who often wants to play with the dog in a way that is a lot of fun for both of them, but brings out dominance and craziness in the dog which I am working on trying to suppress and control. You're not just training the dog, you're teaching people. Dogs are often much easier!

 

[ShrekDawg]

@KDOGG331 having everyone in the family handle the dog the same, using the same commands, rewards, etc., is so crucial, and goes to what @reddogmaster2 said about consistency being so important. A dog's mind is like a computer, he thinks yes/no, right/wrong, good/bad in his world. People want the dog to think in shades. Like, Today it's okay for you to jump up on me bc I'm feeling playful and wearing jeans. Tomorrow, no bc I'm dressed for a wedding. Or you can't jump on children but you can jump on hubby. Or not today bc you're muddy or I have a headache. Dogs can't think that way. It's either always okay or never okay. To jump up. To sleep on the bed. To bite. Anything. So if your family doesn't understand that and isn't on board with it ... don't get a dog until you have a place of your own. Not fair to the dog. Anything else is cruelty. My opinion anyway.

Yeah, I definitely agree and that was part of the problem with Gator. The boys would always rough house with him and let him bite and jump and stuff and I didn’t like that but he didn’t know (though he did learn that he couldn’t do it with me ever plus eventually outgrew it) But also, even worse, they would often let him do something and then be mad at him for the same thing later, even just moments later.

Like for example, sometimes they would let him jump up and be crazy and then the next second be yelling at him when they just were petting him and encouraging it two seconds ago Or feed him while eating then be mad he’s begging.

But the worst part for me was that my dad thought every single rule I tried to impose was “mean.”

Even something as simple as laying in the hall, out of the kitchen, while we ate. And he always fed him while we were eating.

He’s just horrible with dogs and think spoiling them is “love” but poor Gator was so confused. Even until the day he died, he STILL would constantly steal stuffed animals or pillows or TP or whatever, things that weren’t his, because my dad thought it was “cute” and “funny” and often gave him them.

Granted, he did have a couple pillows that were “his” (he liked to suck and chew them and stuff) but then it became every pillow or stuffed thing was his.

Thankfully though, despite all of this, I was still able to get him fairly well trained and he could do pretty advanced obedience like staying all the way across our very very large yard, “waiting” while I put cookies up his legs, heeling, etc. and even quite a lot of tricks and fun stuff, we even played hide and seek and nose games lol, but it took a lot of work and he didn’t respect me at first. And I thought he was stubborn as heck at first.

It wasn’t until I finally figured out what motivated him that it really “clicked” and we started making progress with the training. But I had to earn his respect. I had the love before then but he thought he was the boss. I had to teach him he wasn’t. Not through anything cruel or anything but just that consistency and that I always follow through.

For example, you don’t come, I go and physically get you. This often meant long line for a while.

Consistency and stuff like that.

Cause my dad would just call him from the porch but never actually physically go off the porch and get him and Gator knew this. He also often would just go “oh never mind, you don’t have to come in if you don’t want to.” And Gator also knew this.

I was always like... NO. You call him, he comes to you. And then if you want to release him and let him stay outside after that, fine. But he has to listen to you FIRST.

But he didn’t get it. And I don’t think he ever will.

Gator was always on his bed too and he wouldn’t move for him. Wouldn’t move for me at first either. We worked through that, practicing on his dog bed at first, then the real bed, and pretty soon he would gladly hop right off or move over for me. But only for me.

He had some other more serious issues too that also make me think it might be a bad idea to get a dog right now because my dad encouraged these issues, even thought they were funny, and they were NOT.

Granted Gator‘s breed mix likely played a role and a more docile dog might not have the same issues but still. Even just basic obedience and training, I know he would RUIN any dog.

That said, I do think most dogs ARE smart enough to learn when they can get away with something, Gator and Libby are/constantly playing with people and testing the limits, so I’m sure I could get a dog to listen to ME when necessary but still.... it’s confusing and unfair to then be told they sometimes don’t have to listen.

If I did it again, I might keep the dog away from my dad as much as possible

My mother gets it, even if she doesn’t always necessarily use the exact same way I do, she gets dogs and rules and that they LIKE having rules and structure. Not my dad. It was a freaking free for all. Always stole stuff from the recycling too.

HUGE contrast compared to my brother’s 3 dogs who are all perfectly behaved and quiet, well mannered dogs. I almost think they are a little TOO strict sometimes or I guess not always fair I should say BUT they listen and are so calm. Gator had a lot of anxiety.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Sorry for that MASSIVE novel

 

[ShrekDawg]

I've always trained the dogs new tricks and obedience, and then tell everyone else how to do each command, and what is ok and not ok. It's important for the dogs to listen to them as well.

That is the best way to do it! It helps if everyone in the family listens and cooperates. I have an adult child who often wants to play with the dog in a way that is a lot of fun for both of them, but brings out dominance and craziness in the dog which I am working on trying to suppress and control. You're not just training the dog, you're teaching people. Dogs are often much easier!

Dogs are so much easier!!! Gator was SO smart and learned so so so fast, sometimes in minutes depending on the trick lol, so it was actually fairly easy to get him to learn that he had to listen to me, even if he didn’t listen to others, but it was so hard while training him because everyone else would constantly undo our progress!!! So it took a lot more consistency and time on my part to get him to where I wanted him to be. Kind of like, yes, they are allowing that but no, I am still not. Would be way easier if they just did what I said.

 

[reddogmaster2]

I've always trained the dogs new tricks and obedience, and then tell everyone else how to do each command, and what is ok and not ok. It's important for the dogs to listen to them as well.

This is one area that I differ with you.

I have 30 acres and a long nearly 1 mile access road then a 900 foot driveway. Often my gates are open if we are coming or going during the day. Very rarely, but it does happen, a vehicle will approach. I do not want my dogs taking commands from an uninvited person.

A buddy of mine who I hadn't seen in a while stopped by to say hello. The dogs kept him pinned in his car until I released them. My buddy gets out and says " Damn, Reddogmaster, you need to train those mutts!"

I just laughed and laughed and finally said, "they are trained well enough to keep an uninvited guest pinned into his car until I let you out".

They are pets, but they are security as well.

 

[ShrekDawg]

This is one area that I differ with you.

I have 30 acres and a long nearly 1 mile access road then a 900 foot driveway. Often my gates are open if we are coming or going during the day. Very rarely, but it does happen, a vehicle will approach. I do not want my dogs taking commands from an uninvited person.

A buddy of mine who I hadn't seen in a while stopped by to say hello. The dogs kept him pinned in his car until I released them. My buddy gets out and says " Damn, Reddogmaster, you need to train those mutts!"

I just laughed and laughed and finally said, "they are trained well enough to keep an uninvited guest pinned into his car until I let you out".

They are pets, but they are security as well.

OMG! love that!

I agree!! I think it’s kind of cool when a dog is loyal or devoted enough or whatever to only listen to his handler.

Not all breeds are like that (though I’m sure most could be trained to be even if it wasn’t natural at first) but the ones that are are pretty cool.

Like most Labs or Goldens would probably gladly go home with a new family if they had a ball or food

Even though I love those breeds. They would just go home with anyone.

But I’ve always loved the shepherd breeds. There’s a lot of them but I love every single one

German, Belgian, Dutch, Australian, English, etc.