Quail colour breeding

[Malhide]

Hi just new to this forum
I am looking some info on colour breeding in coturnix quails
At the moment I've some in
pharaoh wild type male and females
Silver male
English white female
Tibetan
One other lighter colour not sure on it I currently like in the UK northern Ireland and just get back into quails I've also hatched out Chinese painted quail and currently more eggs of another coturnix quails plus my own harlequin quails bloodline
Any info on this would be greatly appreciated thanks for reading

 

[muddy75]

You can breed any to pharoah or white to diversify your colors

 

[scyllarus]

I'm seeing a silver tuxedo, English white over a dilute color, browns/pharaohs, and Italian/Manchurians. There might be some fees in there as well, but I'm not sure due to lighting and the quail not cooperating for pictures.

My understanding of quail genetics is rather limited, but I'll write up what I know. I'm also going to assume you have some basic genetics knowledge, but please let me know if you don't! I'm happy to explain or provide resources, I'm just trying to keep things to the point.

English white and Tuxedo are the same gene and are what makes the bird's belly/body white. Tuxedo is one copy of this gene, English white is two copies. Thus, if you breed your English white hen to any male, you should get tuxedo and English white chicks.

Browns/Pharaohs - brown is technically its own color, but it's rather hard to tell these two apart. It's considered the 'wild' base color.

Italian/Manchurian - Italian is one copy of a dilution gene, Manchurian is two copies. This gene is dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the 'blonde' look on some of your birds. It's considered a 'base' color, I believe.

Rosetta/Tibetan - Rosetta is one copy of the extended brown gene, Tibetan is two copies. This gene is also dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the darker look. It's also considered a 'base' color. I'm...not sure what happens if you have one copy of Italian and one copy of Rosetta on a bird.

Silver - I believe silver is a fatal gene, which is to say that two copies of the gene = a chick that will die in the egg. One copy is generally considered fine, but I've seen some of the more experienced keepers mention that silver birds are more delicate and have higher risk of hatching out albinos (which is bad as they're prone to going blind).

"Fee" - this gene removes the reds/yellows from a bird, creating a bird that's gray-ish. Depending on the base color, the bird will be a darker or lighter gray - so an Italian fee bird is a 'Pearl fee', a pharaoh fee is a 'Falb fee', and rosetta/tibetan bird is a 'Grau fee'.

I think you're likely to see a lot of pharoah, Italian, Rosetta, and tuxedo birds if you hatch out of your current flock. You might get some English whites and silvers as well, but it's less likely as your silver roo is only going to have one copy of silver, so he'll only pass it along 50% of the time. I thiiiink that English white can sometimes 'hide' on certain colors, but I'm not sure.

If you have a certain goal in breeding for color, you should probably keep all of the same color in a pen rather than all your birds together.

 

[Malhide]

I'm seeing a silver tuxedo, English white over a dilute color, browns/pharaohs, and Italian/Manchurians. There might be some fees in there as well, but I'm not sure due to lighting and the quail not cooperating for pictures.

My understanding of quail genetics is rather limited, but I'll write up what I know. I'm also going to assume you have some basic genetics knowledge, but please let me know if you don't! I'm happy to explain or provide resources, I'm just trying to keep things to the point.

English white and Tuxedo are the same gene and are what makes the bird's belly/body white. Tuxedo is one copy of this gene, English white is two copies. Thus, if you breed your English white hen to any male, you should get tuxedo and English white chicks.

Browns/Pharaohs - brown is technically its own color, but it's rather hard to tell these two apart. It's considered the 'wild' base color.

Italian/Manchurian - Italian is one copy of a dilution gene, Manchurian is two copies. This gene is dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the 'blonde' look on some of your birds. It's considered a 'base' color, I believe.

Rosetta/Tibetan - Rosetta is one copy of the extended brown gene, Tibetan is two copies. This gene is also dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the darker look. It's also considered a 'base' color. I'm...not sure what happens if you have one copy of Italian and one copy of Rosetta on a bird.

Silver - I believe silver is a fatal gene, which is to say that two copies of the gene = a chick that will die in the egg. One copy is generally considered fine, but I've seen some of the more experienced keepers mention that silver birds are more delicate and have higher risk of hatching out albinos (which is bad as they're prone to going blind).

"Fee" - this gene removes the reds/yellows from a bird, creating a bird that's gray-ish. Depending on the base color, the bird will be a darker or lighter gray - so an Italian fee bird is a 'Pearl fee', a pharaoh fee is a 'Falb fee', and rosetta/tibetan bird is a 'Grau fee'.

I think you're likely to see a lot of pharoah, Italian, Rosetta, and tuxedo birds if you hatch out of your current flock. You might get some English whites and silvers as well, but it's less likely as your silver roo is only going to have one copy of silver, so he'll only pass it along 50% of the time. I thiiiink that English white can sometimes 'hide' on certain colors, but I'm not sure.

If you have a certain goal in breeding for color, you should probably keep all of the same color in a pen rather than all your birds together.

So the silver one is a silver tuxedo?
I do have some knowledge of genetics

 

[scyllarus]

So the silver one is a silver tuxedo?
I do have some knowledge of genetics

I think so? Some silvers have white without tuxedo, but I think in those cases the white is limited to their wings. I'd wait and see if anyone else chimes in, though!

 

[Malhide]

I think so? Some silvers have white without tuxedo, but I think in those cases the white is limited to their wings. I'd wait and see if anyone else chimes in, though!

Thank you

 

[ReeceLawrence]

I'm seeing a silver tuxedo, English white over a dilute color, browns/pharaohs, and Italian/Manchurians. There might be some fees in there as well, but I'm not sure due to lighting and the quail not cooperating for pictures.

My understanding of quail genetics is rather limited, but I'll write up what I know. I'm also going to assume you have some basic genetics knowledge, but please let me know if you don't! I'm happy to explain or provide resources, I'm just trying to keep things to the point.

English white and Tuxedo are the same gene and are what makes the bird's belly/body white. Tuxedo is one copy of this gene, English white is two copies. Thus, if you breed your English white hen to any male, you should get tuxedo and English white chicks.

Browns/Pharaohs - brown is technically its own color, but it's rather hard to tell these two apart. It's considered the 'wild' base color.

Italian/Manchurian - Italian is one copy of a dilution gene, Manchurian is two copies. This gene is dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the 'blonde' look on some of your birds. It's considered a 'base' color, I believe.

Rosetta/Tibetan - Rosetta is one copy of the extended brown gene, Tibetan is two copies. This gene is also dominant to brown/pharoah and creates the darker look. It's also considered a 'base' color. I'm...not sure what happens if you have one copy of Italian and one copy of Rosetta on a bird.

Silver - I believe silver is a fatal gene, which is to say that two copies of the gene = a chick that will die in the egg. One copy is generally considered fine, but I've seen some of the more experienced keepers mention that silver birds are more delicate and have higher risk of hatching out albinos (which is bad as they're prone to going blind).

"Fee" - this gene removes the reds/yellows from a bird, creating a bird that's gray-ish. Depending on the base color, the bird will be a darker or lighter gray - so an Italian fee bird is a 'Pearl fee', a pharaoh fee is a 'Falb fee', and rosetta/tibetan bird is a 'Grau fee'.

I think you're likely to see a lot of pharoah, Italian, Rosetta, and tuxedo birds if you hatch out of your current flock. You might get some English whites and silvers as well, but it's less likely as your silver roo is only going to have one copy of silver, so he'll only pass it along 50% of the time. I thiiiink that English white can sometimes 'hide' on certain colors, but I'm not sure.

If you have a certain goal in breeding for color, you should probably keep all of the same color in a pen rather than all your birds together.

My golds are all set up with one Manchurian roo & hen and one Italian sparkly hen so Im pretty sure that's going to be all, locus Y and all gold chicks but varying patterns from the two hens.

I understand that wild-type Pharaoh x Tibetan = Rosetta
And have a set -up with 1 wild-type Pharaoh roo ,who's giving Egyptian colour locus Br ,1 wild-type Pharaoh hen whos atm not giving off any red or brown so could be Flab fee but lets just say for now she's just a bit of an ashy WP, 1 Rosetta hen locus E

I'm assuming that normal WP+WP will give back wild-type Pharaoh offspring.

BUT how Will the Br effect the E if my suspicious are true and what will locus Br and flab fee effect be if I am again correct?

Will that mean further dilution of the locus E or will (lets for arguments sake say he's not Br just )WP ,inherited the extra locus E gene back and give me some rosettas..or will it be Ee and give me Tibetans because of the potential for the red in the Br +E

…because now I'm wondering if I should just make three different trios up golds to golds ,wild-type Pharaoh and get the Rossetta a Rossetta roo and sister wife

Ideally I'd like to create a golds-locus Y and Rosetta-locus E combination after which is why I'm don't want to further dilute the locus E gene in my Rosetta , Rosie is my only Rosetta

Any guidance is greatly appreciated. Reece

PS Hello I'm 35-year-old neurospicy from the UK, this is my first time posting here my brain is literally spinning out over this colour Genesis , I bred white apricot and mallard colored call ducks as a boy and kept button, Japanese, Californian quail as a teen, I've got back int it all last year when I realised no one can tell me no anymore ,, I got this lot in specifically for selective breeding, they are all so chill and tame with gorgeous colour, I'm also going to gain 2 trios of calis to breed shortly ,if I'm honest they are my favourite ,its the little head plumage on the male that does it for me ,I'm on the hunt for Mearns but they are like gold dust here in the uk I'm also in pursuit atm of some chakurs but that's if the dude ever replies lol which will be my 1st go at breeding partridges.

 

[Susan Skylark]

Check out pipsnchicks website for the best coturnix quail genetics available. I’m having trouble following your genetic short hand so will just try to summarize what little I know. The main base colors are pharaoh (wild), Italian (fawn), and EB (Rosetta/Tibetan) with white, silver, ginger, fee, roux etc being color modifiers that influence color but are independent of base colors. Every bird has a base color. A bird with no other base genes (fawn or EB) will be pharaoh. White or fee (or whatever) influence the phenotype of every base color but are genetically distinct. A homozygous bird (Manchurian in fawn, Tibetan in EB) will always throw that base gene and a heterozygous bird has a 50% chance of throwing it. Phenotypically an EB gene is dominant over fawn, so they can still throw fawn but look Rosetta. You can’t really ‘dilute’ a single gene, either the bird is heterozygous or homozygous for it, or doesn’t have it, phenotypically it depends on the combination of all color genes. The E locus is home to American pansy, EB, sparkly and regular pansy, they can’t be homozygous for any other of these genes and carriers of any others (you’ll never get a Tibetan sparkly).

 

[ReeceLawrence]

Hello there

Thank you kindly for your reply, I can imagine the shorthand was confusing, I was bamboozled myself , writing it at past midnight ha.

I will take your advice and look at pipschicks

Reece