Quail keepers UK and EU - treat / food query

[HattiLongSoks]

Hi folks, I've been hit and miss on here since getting my quail. They've been keeping me busy!

I wanted to speak to some more local quail owners. I recently found out that feeding dried mealworm / calciworm etc is ILLEGAL in the UK re DEFRA and re food chains etc. I had to google it a fair bit and I'm not particularly interested in hearing anyone say "Oh well I still do it bla bla bla" or if you're not local and in a different country with different rules (this is what's doing my head in most re quail ownership so far, the lack of consistent info and differences across countries which aren't always clearly stated on sources - that and lots of info being focused on meat and egg production which of course is the majority and needed but doesn't always feel like the best info for raising happy healthy birds that can just live their lives)

Luckily I haven't fed my bevy any kind of dried worms yet - unluckily I bought a massive 3-litre bucket of them I'm now giving away to a mate with a massive garden for their wild birds.

I've been following a few more threads with UK and EU folk and wondered what my alternative tasty treat could be for my birds? They don't get excited by much, I'd like to give them something (hence impulse buying calciworms which they probs would have loved from looking at people and places that can and do feed them these.)

So I was wondering if some of the new folk I've followed like @Ital (loving your thread on free rein feeding!) @Perris @Gigachad poultry and anyone else UK / EU based wants to give me any info or tips? Thanks in advance! Especially if I get nice, understanding, responses haha

 

[HattiLongSoks]

Adding in @Yorkshire Coop in case they have any advice on the above too!

 

[SpotTheCat]

Hi folks, I've been hit and miss on here since getting my quail. They've been keeping me busy!

I wanted to speak to some more local quail owners. I recently found out that feeding dried mealworm / calciworm etc is ILLEGAL in the UK re DEFRA and re food chains etc. I had to google it a fair bit and I'm not particularly interested in hearing anyone say "Oh well I still do it bla bla bla" or if you're not local and in a different country with different rules (this is what's doing my head in most re quail ownership so far, the lack of consistent info and differences across countries which aren't always clearly stated on sources - that and lots of info being focused on meat and egg production which of course is the majority and needed but doesn't always feel like the best info for raising happy healthy birds that can just live their lives)

Luckily I haven't fed my bevy any yet kind of dried worms yet - unluckily I bought a massive 3-litre bucket of them I'm now giving away to a mate with a massive garden for their wild birds.

I've been following a few more threads with UK and EU folk and wondered what my alternative tasty treat could be for my birds? They don't get excited by much, I'd like to give them something (hence impulse buying calciworms which they probs would have loved from looking at people and places that can and do feed them these.)

So I was wondering if some of the new folk I've followed like @Ital (loving your thread on free rein feeding!) @Perris @Gigachad poultry and anyone else UK / EU based wants to give me any info or tips? Thanks in advance! Especially if I get nice, understanding, responses haha

Could you post a link to where it says mealworms are illegal to feed? I have not run into that before! I know kitchen scraps are

 

[Perris]

Hi folks, I've been hit and miss on here since getting my quail. They've been keeping me busy!

I wanted to speak to some more local quail owners. I recently found out that feeding dried mealworm / calciworm etc is ILLEGAL in the UK re DEFRA and re food chains etc. I had to google it a fair bit and I'm not particularly interested in hearing anyone say "Oh well I still do it bla bla bla" or if you're not local and in a different country with different rules (this is what's doing my head in most re quail ownership so far, the lack of consistent info and differences across countries which aren't always clearly stated on sources - that and lots of info being focused on meat and egg production which of course is the majority and needed but doesn't always feel like the best info for raising happy healthy birds that can just live their lives)

Luckily I haven't fed my bevy any yet kind of dried worms yet - unluckily I bought a massive 3-litre bucket of them I'm now giving away to a mate with a massive garden for their wild birds.

I've been following a few more threads with UK and EU folk and wondered what my alternative tasty treat could be for my birds? They don't get excited by much, I'd like to give them something (hence impulse buying calciworms which they probs would have loved from looking at people and places that can and do feed them these.)

So I was wondering if some of the new folk I've followed like @Ital (loving your thread on free rein feeding!) @Perris @Gigachad poultry and anyone else UK / EU based wants to give me any info or tips? Thanks in advance! Especially if I get nice, understanding, responses haha

Hi @HattiLongSoks (are you related to Pippi Longstocking?)

Live mealworms are legal and are what I use as principal 'meat' protein source. I have found it very easy and cheap to run a mealworm farm for this purpose, thread here
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/first-attempt-at-mealworm-farming.1350136/

@SpotTheCat the page you need is this one
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/supplying-and-using-animal-by-products-as-farm-animal-feed#contents
mealworms are not mentioned directly, but the dried version is elsewhere classified as PAP (processed animal protein), so falls under what is said about PAP here. In particular, dried mealworms fall foul of the sweeping abstract rule that

"You cannot make or supply farm animal feed using processed animal protein (PAP) unless:

• it comes from non-ruminant animals and you’re feeding it to farmed fish
• it’s fishmeal and you’re feeding to non-ruminant animals"

This is currently being considered for revision, and is likely to be relaxed in due course, but until then dried mealworms should be off the menu (for no reason other than obeying the law - there is zero evidence that the sort of diseases this legislation was designed for can possibly cross from mealworms to chickens or people.)

 

[Nabiki]

I'm not in your area, but are black soldier fly larvae an option? They're better for your birds than mealworms since mealworms are high in fat.

 

[Perris]

I'm not in your area, but are black soldier fly larvae an option? They're better for your birds than mealworms since mealworms are high in fat.

why do you think this? according to https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-animal-021419-083930
it is false. Snip of table 1 from said paper shows fat in mealworm is 25-36% DM, whereas fat in black soldier fly larvae is 25-58% DM.

 

[HattiLongSoks]

@Perris coming in with all the links and info! thank you so much! Haha sometimes I wish I was related to Pippi Longstockings, sadly not, unless I'm her brown haired grumpy gremlin cousin from afar

And @SpotTheCat did Perris's links help you out?

@Nabiki I bought a huge tub of calciworm which are the larva of the black soldier fly so I thought I had that covered.... until the supplier said they were from China (which I mean I have so many thoughts on this...) and then every pack I picked up of any kind of meal worm in Pets at Home (one of our main crummy pet stores) or Home Bargains (discount store) all said from China.

Okay so you've all been so nice! And thank you so much @Perris for your link on growing my own which to be fair I might try. And in all honesty am I/have I overreacted? Looking after quail has been a big learning curve for me and every time I think I'd done something right or I'm on top of things I'm quickly brought back down to earth!

These are the links and quotes I sped through on my lunch from work today:

"The primary reason insect protein from dried meal worms and other insects are not allowed to be fed to chickens are due to concerns about the insects being reared on food waste, table scraps, catering waste.. that kind of thing and then those harmful elements entering the human food chain by being subsequently fed to chickens.

Now the big assumption that is being made is that the insects are being reared on human food waste, this may be true for the cheap imported ones. But good quality meal worms are always reared in a cereal based dry food mix and given fresh vegetable matter for hydration. Our Live meal worms are bred here in the UK to the highest standards so hopefully one day DEFRA will review the situation and we will be able to tell you what wonderful treats dried meal worms make for pet chickens. After all by switching out from animal based proteins to insect based proteins in livestock feed is going to be a great benefit to the environment. So despite chickens going crazy for meal worms for now it remains illegal to feed dried insects that have been commercially reared to them. (oh its also illegal to feed them table scraps.. but we don't sell table scraps so we dont have to advise you about them)"
https://www.letterboxlivefoods.co.u...n insect protein,by being subsequently fed to

"It is illegal to feed you chickens mealworms because:

- Mealworms may be contaminated with bacteria or viruses.
- Mealworms can contain harmful levels of heavy metals.
- They may have been fed on banned substances and growth promoters.
- Shop bought mealworms are not produced in controlled and regulated environments.
- Mealworms can accumulate toxins from their surrounding or the substrate they are grown in.
- Pesticides can accumulate in the growing worms as they feed.
- Substrates used to rear mealworms may contain pesticides, Dioxins and PCB's.
- There is a risk of invasive insect species causing environmental damage.
- GM or genetically modified crops may have been used to rear insects.
- Parasites can survive the desiccation process used to produce dried mealworms.
- The problem here is not the fact that chickens are eating insects but that they are eating insects produced in an unregulated way that may be introducing disease and parasites in to your flock.
https://cluckin.net/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-mealworms-to-chickens.html

And more links:

https://www.bhwt.org.uk/feeding-your-hens/
https://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/mealworms-for-chickens.html
https://chickenandchicksinfo.com/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-chickens-mealworms-in-the-uk/

 

[Nabiki]

why do you think this? according to https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-animal-021419-083930
it is false. Snip of table 1 from said paper shows fat in mealworm is 25-36% DM, whereas fat in black soldier fly larvae is 25-58% DM.

Hmm... I was working on information from people more experienced than me, but doing some more comparison, they are actually quite comparable. BSF larvae is a bit lower in protein and a bit higher in fat than mealworms (I compared several sources and they only seem to be 1-2% difference in each), but BSF larvae also have calcium.

I guess it's six of one, half dozen of the other. BSF are native to the western hemisphere, so maybe not a good choice for you.

 

[Perris]

Hmm... I was working on information from people more experienced than me, but doing some more comparison, they are actually quite comparable. BSF larvae is a bit lower in protein and a bit higher in fat than mealworms (I compared several sources and they only seem to be 1-2% difference in each), but BSF larvae also have calcium.

I guess it's six of one, half dozen of the other. BSF are native to the western hemisphere, so maybe not a good choice for you.

I ruled them out because they can fly! Farming them needs MUCH more elaborate set up than do mealworms. And they have a much faster growth rate, which may be ideal if you're selling them, but not if you're just wanting to feed a moderate-size backyard flock.

 

[Perris]

@Perris coming in with all the links and info! thank you so much! Haha sometimes I wish I was related to Pippi Longstockings, sadly not, unless I'm her brown haired grumpy gremlin cousin from afar

And @SpotTheCat did Perris's links help you out?

@Nabiki I bought a huge tub of calciworm which are the larva of the black soldier fly so I thought I had that covered.... until the supplier said they were from China (which I mean I have so many thoughts on this...) and then every pack I picked up of any kind of meal worm in Pets at Home (one of our main crummy pet stores) or Home Bargains (discount store) all said from China.

Okay so you've all been so nice! And thank you so much @Perris for your link on growing my own which to be fair I might try. And in all honesty am I/have I overreacted? Looking after quail has been a big learning curve for me and every time I think I'd done something right or I'm on top of things I'm quickly brought back down to earth!

These are the links and quotes I sped through on my lunch from work today:

"The primary reason insect protein from dried meal worms and other insects are not allowed to be fed to chickens are due to concerns about the insects being reared on food waste, table scraps, catering waste.. that kind of thing and then those harmful elements entering the human food chain by being subsequently fed to chickens.

Now the big assumption that is being made is that the insects are being reared on human food waste, this may be true for the cheap imported ones. But good quality meal worms are always reared in a cereal based dry food mix and given fresh vegetable matter for hydration. Our Live meal worms are bred here in the UK to the highest standards so hopefully one day DEFRA will review the situation and we will be able to tell you what wonderful treats dried meal worms make for pet chickens. After all by switching out from animal based proteins to insect based proteins in livestock feed is going to be a great benefit to the environment. So despite chickens going crazy for meal worms for now it remains illegal to feed dried insects that have been commercially reared to them. (oh its also illegal to feed them table scraps.. but we don't sell table scraps so we dont have to advise you about them)"
https://www.letterboxlivefoods.co.uk/dried-mealworms-for-chickens-35-w.asp#:~:text=The primary reason insect protein,by being subsequently fed to

"It is illegal to feed you chickens mealworms because:

- Mealworms may be contaminated with bacteria or viruses.
- Mealworms can contain harmful levels of heavy metals.
- They may have been fed on banned substances and growth promoters.
- Shop bought mealworms are not produced in controlled and regulated environments.
- Mealworms can accumulate toxins from their surrounding or the substrate they are grown in.
- Pesticides can accumulate in the growing worms as they feed.
- Substrates used to rear mealworms may contain pesticides, Dioxins and PCB's.
- There is a risk of invasive insect species causing environmental damage.
- GM or genetically modified crops may have been used to rear insects.
- Parasites can survive the desiccation process used to produce dried mealworms.
- The problem here is not the fact that chickens are eating insects but that they are eating insects produced in an unregulated way that may be introducing disease and parasites in to your flock.
https://cluckin.net/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-mealworms-to-chickens.html

And more links:

https://www.bhwt.org.uk/feeding-your-hens/
https://www.raising-happy-chickens.com/mealworms-for-chickens.html
https://chickenandchicksinfo.com/why-is-it-illegal-to-feed-chickens-mealworms-in-the-uk/

most of this has no legal basis; I guess it's just people trying to rationalise the ban and making up plausible stuff to fill in the blanks in their knowledge. The bhwt does quote the law (the bit in bold) and you will note how brief it is and that reasons for it are not given there.