Question about feeding eggshells to chickens?

[pdirt]

If one look outside the typical poultry world and more into other forms of poultry there are a ton of types of grits and grit mixes.
Now the pigeon world has grit down to a fine science and more and more chicken breeders are using pigeon grit because it's so much better than the typical granite grit. Here is one grit mix that's for pigeons in the breeding season.

Redstone, Granite, Charcoal, Oyster Shells, Sea Shells, Anise Oil, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Copper Oxide, Iron Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate etc.

edited to correct error about RonP:

Fascinating. I had no idea. I wonder what the pigeon world has on chickens? I also think it was from @RonP that I first learned there is such thing as insoluble grit. Different terms for the same thing, from folks from different regions.

Not being from the South (southeastern USA), I was once told by someone who had traveled there that generally, if you go to a restaurant and ask for a "Coke", the waitperson will ask you, "What kind?" Meaning, do you want a 7-Up, Orange Crush, Pepsi, Coca Cola, etc. Where I'm from, the waitperson would ask no questions and just bring you a Coca Cola.

Back to calcium and eggshells...I notice if we feed our chickens only crushed eggshells (chunks much larger than crushed oyster shell) plus their non-layer feed, the resulting eggshells are thinner. Thinner than if I feed only the oyster shells. No broken eggs or anything like that, but I'd like the shells to be a bit stronger, just as a preventative against broken eggs. My guess is because the crushed eggshells are so brittle, they get pulverized into a finer mash in the gizzard and being then a much smaller particle size, the calcium in them is not absorbed as well. I like to recycle the eggshells, so I think I may just start mixing the oyster and eggshells together.

 

[RonP]

Fascinating. I had no idea. I wonder what the pigeon world has on chickens? I also think it was @RonP that I first learned there is such thing as insoluble grit, perhaps he learned it from you. Different terms for the same thing, from folks from different regions.

Funny.

I actually learned it first hand when I was given a bag of "grit" that was not granite...

I did my research, and found a lot of information readily available.

 

[pdirt]

Quote:
My apologies, RonP. I've corrected my post to reflect that.

 

[Chris09]

Fascinating. I had no idea. I wonder what the pigeon world has on chickens? I also think it was @RonP that I first learned there is such thing as insoluble grit, perhaps he learned it from you. Different terms for the same thing, from folks from different regions.

I brought the term insoluble grit up about 5 or 6 years ago on here, most of the people thought I was nuts. The pigeon world like the game fowl world has a lot up on the average backyard raiser.
Most of the bigger breeds of both pigeons and game fowl take nutrition to the extremes they have a very good knowledge on nutrition, what's in there feed and why it is in there. Most mix there own feed/s and there mix/s will chance depending on the performance of the bird, health and the season.

Reading and talking to people about raising game fowl over the past 30 years is how I learned a lot of what I know about poultry. I first learned that calcium was a silent killer of poultry and the damages it does by talking to a old game fowl breeder when I first got into poultry, why before most of the studies were even done on the subject. I still find it funny when I see posts or here people talking about feeding "fermented" grains to chickens, they talk like it is a big new thing. I hate to tell them the feeding fermented grains to poultry has been around ever since the making of moonshine and other alcohol.
The difference is the people back then new how to make and feed it pulse they new pros and cons of feeding too much, most of the people that are making and feeding fermented grains today are about 50 years behind the rest of the crowd.

 

[RonP]

No apologies necessary!!!

We are here to share information regardless.

My "Funny" was reminiscing about the argument I had with the feed store manager who knew more about everything than anyone else...

My apologies, RonP. I've corrected my post to reflect that.

 

[pdirt]

Quote:
Chris, can you say more about how the game bird folks have been doing fermented grains? Or what they think of the pros/cons of feeding too much? I'd be very curious as to how they do it. A quick google search only found me game bird feed with added direct fed microbials.

Pretty early on in doing fermented feed, I decided that feeding a diet of 100% fermented grains to chickens didn't make sense to me. I wouldn't eat such a diet, nor feed it to my dog or any other animal. My very limited understanding of silage is that it is fed as a supplement, not as the sole ration of nutrition, day in and day out. Also, too much lactic and acetic acid (from fermentation) can't be good for them. A little yes, but a whole lot...it just doesn't make sense to me. While I think there are several benefits to fermented foods, I think they should be a supplement/complement to forage or dry feed.

 

[glib]

Chris, can you say more about how the game bird folks have been doing fermented grains? Or what they think of the pros/cons of feeding too much? I'd be very curious as to how they do it. A quick google search only found me game bird feed with added direct fed microbials.

Pretty early on in doing fermented feed, I decided that feeding a diet of 100% fermented grains to chickens didn't make sense to me. I wouldn't eat such a diet, nor feed it to my dog or any other animal. My very limited understanding of silage is that it is fed as a supplement, not as the sole ration of nutrition, day in and day out. Also, too much lactic and acetic acid (from fermentation) can't be good for them. A little yes, but a whole lot...it just doesn't make sense to me. While I think there are several benefits to fermented foods, I think they should be a supplement/complement to forage or dry feed.

For what is worth, animals who are vegetarian or near vegetarian produce large amounts of acetic acid and other short chain fatty acids in their gut. It provides 2.5 kcal/gram and is strongly anti-inflammatory. Gorillas, pigs and rabbits get about 2/3 of their calories from fermentation byproducts (that is, from fats). I am not sure about chickens and I am not sure about lactic, but it is likely that there is no such thing as too much acetic acid. Traditional human societies, too, eat only grains that have been fermented. I think that, theoretically, half fermented and half sprouted is close to ideal.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I'm sure this has been asked before, so I apologize. I have two Brahma hens who have been laying for a couple of months now. They have a pan of oyster shell in their run, but it's low and I need to refill it yet have misplaced the bag of oyster shell. I have wanted to just feed them their own eggshells for awhile now and have some crushed and ready, but I had a couple of questions about doing that.

1) Is it okay to feed just their eggshells, or do I also need to add oyster shell to the mix?

2) On that note, will they every need an oyster shell supplement?

Eggshells and eggshells only will result in defective eggshells. The reason is because eggshells bits are tiny don't stay in the digestive track long enough to be absorbed by a hens' body. A small can of crushed oyster shells fed free choice along with a good layer ration is the way to go.

 

[glib]

Eggshells and eggshells only will result in defective eggshells. The reason is because eggshells bits are tiny don't stay in the digestive track long enough to be absorbed by a hens' body. A small can of crushed oyster shells fed free choice along with a good layer ration is the way to go.

I wonder, in the interest of being strictly local, if one could make good shells with egg shells and ground bones. in the old days oyster shells were not available...

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I wonder, in the interest of being strictly local, if one could make good shells with egg shells and ground bones. in the old days oyster shells were not available...

That may be true but in the early 1950s when I picked up my first bucket of chicken feed and took off in my grandfather's foot steps as he went about feeding his hens, we always had big sacks of crushed oyster shells stacked up in the feed room. But the chicken feed then had other good things in it like dried whey, blood meal, fish meal, meat meal, ground limestone, and yes good old fashioned bone meal.