Question about Old Cotswold Legbar

[GaryDean26]

More information...

It looks like the bloodline that the Old Cotwold Legbar was developed from came from David Applegarth. The only C. Elliot bloodline in the UK was the line that went through Punnett. Elliot didn't keep the blue egg layers he brought back from Patagonia. They were all donated for research and went to Punnett. So... no Elliot bloodlines were in Cotswold. His family, Martin, survived in that that area, but the blue eggs didn't. They went through Punnett who developed the Cream Legbar, then David Applegarth who re-created the degenerated Legbar when it was nearly extinct and breed it back to standard, then Lee-woolf who crossed the Applegarth lines with to create the commercial Cotswold production birds.

 

[Woodsmith]

Can it be definitively confirmed that the Cotswold Legbar is a true breed? Production? Autosexing? Better layer than Cream Legbar? Are they available in the US?
Thanks.

 

[Woodsmith]

I posted the message above a bit too soon. Al my questions were answered at http://www.legbarsofbroadway.co.uk/index.php/our-hens/the-cotswold-legbar/.
Doesn't appear that the breed is available because Legbars of Broadway don't sell cockerels only pullets.

 

[ChicKat]

Can it be definitively confirmed that the Cotswold Legbar is a true breed? Production? Autosexing? Better layer than Cream Legbar? Are they available in the US?
Thanks.

I have some doubt that it is a true breed...it may be a Land Race type fowl... It isn't recognized in the British Poultry Association to my knowledge. The approach of these people being the single source - may enrich their purse, but would make it far less likely to be considered a breed.........IMO.

I posted the message above a bit too soon. Al my questions were answered at http://www.legbarsofbroadway.co.uk/index.php/our-hens/the-cotswold-legbar/.
Doesn't appear that the breed is available because Legbars of Broadway don't sell cockerels only pullets.

Hi woodsmith -

Thanks for posting this. This is a big surprise to me. all these years, I have thought that the Cotswold was the Equivalent of our EE and that it certainly wasn't autosexing -- therefore it would never be confused with a Cream Legbar....which IS autosexing..and the most valuable trait of the Cream Legbar breed in the view of many people. Besides the multi colors of eggs, I have heard that they are not auotsexing. I guess that is disproved by their sale of pullets only and their claims of being autosexing at hatch.

So at today's exchange rates - the Cotswold pullett is $61.77 - minimum purchase 2 --

The egg carton shown on the link you posted is a real 'tell' that it isn't a Cream Legbar....Those are eggs that I wouldn't attribute to a Cream Legbar based on the lack of blue. Perhaps the photo-- the lower right corner is pink -- perhaps the upper and lower left color would/could be considered Cream Legbar colors....

The appearance of their hens and also the males that can be glimpsed in the video attached...look enough LIKE Cream Legbars to be Cream Legbars -- although the males look like the version so popular in the UK that has no coloration other than very light plumage with slight barring.

Looking at this -- I would say that they have a highly productive egg-laying flock of Cream Legbars -but they have lost the definite blue-egg gene and 'mixed it up'.

Cream Legbars have all the traits that this website brags on -- with the addition of being a recognized breed. If you wanted to have a flock of Legbars in the USA, IMO it would be very easy for you to obtain Cream Legbars.... I am almost tempted to say that Cotswold Legbar is a mis-nomer for the flock pictured.

Here is another view of cotswold:

http://club.omlet.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=74348

I've had a Cotswold Legbar (Pogo) for a couple of years (from Dalesford Organics).
Around October she stops laying completely and so far this year she hasn't start again. The same happened last winter.
This may be a consideration for you.

So interestingly there are folks in the UK - not at that one particular farm that consider a Cotswold a hybrid....

Picture in this article of old cotswold Legbars -- from indeed Clarence Court -- back in 2007. Very different in appearance.
http://www.cotswoldnews.com/news/241/old-cotswold-legbar-what-the-heck-is-that

I'm thinking that they selected the Cream Legbar like members of their flock, and even imported some CL blood -- I'm not convinced they have a separate breed. One of the things supporting this is that they lay various colors of eggs. Breeds, to my knowledge, have one egg color for the entire breed.

Again -very interesting

ETA - some more viewpoints:
http://www.practicalpoultry.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1313927857

I've checked re Cotswold Legbars and have been reliably informed by a top poultry man that they are a hybrid, not a pure breed.
Em

Here is another one.
http://www.archieslittlegems.co.uk/cotswold_legbar.html

 

[GaryDean26]

Can it be definitively confirmed that the Cotswold Legbar is a true breed? Production? Autosexing? Better layer than Cream Legbar? Are they available in the US?
Thanks.

Originally Posted by Woodsmith

I posted the message above a bit too soon. Al my questions were answered athttp://www.legbarsofbroadway.co.uk/index.php/our-hens/the-cotswold-legbar/.
Doesn't appear that the breed is available because Legbars of Broadway don't sell cockerels only pullets.

The Legbars of Broadway is owned by the developer of the Cotswold Legbar, Philip Lee-Woolf. The Cotswold in NOT a true breed. Mr. Lee-Woolf has been keeping a flock of 200 pure Cream Legbars to create the cotswold Legbars from. I am not sure what he crosses the Legbars with. It is a trade secret, but the Cotswold would be a hybird cross. Mr. Lee-Woolf's claims his Cotswold Hybird Legbars lay 400 eggs in their first two years. My top Cream Legbars lay similar numbers of eggs over their first two years, but our poor layers are in the 350 egg range over two years. Cotswolds are quite pricey in the UK. Easter Eggers are great layers in the USA and cost 1/3 what the equivalent would be to the Cotswold in the UK. No, the Cotswold in not available in the USA. Legbars of Broadway were working on a negotiaton with Pete & Gerry's in 2010 but the two parties could not come to an agreement. Legbars of Broadway indicated that they would only import the parent stock for creating the Cotswold Hybirds if they could find a commercial farm with the hatching ability to produce 10,000 hens in the first two years and to market the blue eggs to grocery stores.