Question about Prop 12 in California

tcfoster

Songster
May 21, 2018
119
183
136
Murphys, CA (Sierra Nevada foothills)
I am extremely confused about the Prop 12 Farm Animal Confinement Initiative in California. Does anyone understand if this is a good or bad thing for chickens? From what I have heard, it will actually legalize the 1 by 1 foot cages under 2022. But it's so hard to read between the lines. Would love any input about this and which is ACTUALLY the best choice to promote humane chicken treatment. Thanks in advance!
 

EggSighted4Life

Crossing the Road
5 Years
Apr 9, 2016
14,342
19,970
832
California's Redwood Coast
I am extremely confused about the Prop 12 Farm Animal Confinement Initiative in California. Does anyone understand if this is a good or bad thing for chickens? From what I have heard, it will actually legalize the 1 by 1 foot cages under 2022. But it's so hard to read between the lines. Would love any input about this and which is ACTUALLY the best choice to promote humane chicken treatment. Thanks in advance!
Ah, I hadn't read it yet... do you have a link? Well, I got one...
http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/12/

I will tell you what I do know about chickens and humane, or at least my take on it with what little information I do currently have...

Our version of free range or "cage free" is just disgusting in many instances... with birds that are brutalized by each other to the point that as much as I would like to SCREAM... I understand WHY they are practicing debeaking! :hit

I don't like cages... and obviously choose to keep my own chickens for a reason.

But chickens are brutal. If they are gonna be kept confined in tight quarters... wire protection from another bird MIGHT be the most humane choice.
freeRangeHeader.jpg

However... reading deeper I see the confusion! :barnie

Part of the issue is knowing WHAT the current law provides for already...
http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/12/analysis.htm

I always look at who is arguing which side... seems to me in this point, the industry is arguing against the changes... And consumer cost will go up.

It SOUNDS like a good proposal but with possible negative outcomes like the picture I posted above. :hmm So many times, people don't understand the difficulties faced... being educated is a difficult place to be... I wasn't much help. :oops:

Good for you for trying to get to the bottom of things and read between the lines! :highfive:
 

tcfoster

Songster
May 21, 2018
119
183
136
Murphys, CA (Sierra Nevada foothills)
Thank you so much for the feedback, I so appreciate it. It's such a tough one to understand and I think most voters will look at it and vote yes because it sounds "humane". It's totally appalling the way chickens are treated - and all factory farm animals for that matter. Definitely one of the reasons we keep our own chickens also. I am going to do my due diligence for this one and will keep everyone posted on what I can find out about it. Thank you again!
 

mthrclckr2

Chirping
Feb 7, 2017
25
23
67
SF Bay Area, CA
I'm glad somebody else asked about this. I'm as confused as heck, too. Back in 2008, there was a Prop 2 that passed, that ordered that egg factory hens had to be housed in cages that would allow them to fully stand, turn around and stretch out their wings. Another condition of that proposition was that by 2015, chickens had to be cage-free. I don't remember this second part, but it was 10 years ago... Anyway, if chickens now must be allowed enough room to stand, stretch, etc., then 1'x1' seems like *less* space! And now they're suggesting that "cage-free" will go into effect in 2022. If all of this is true, it seems like this is a stalling tactic AND a huge step back for chickens.

I'm seriously thinking of leaving this part of my ballot blank. After recently seeing some really tear-jerker videos of battery hens experiencing life outside of the factory for the first time, I've stopped buying eggs from the store. I get more than enough from my sweet, happy bantam ladies that I don't need to support Big Egg.

Proposition 12 is REALLY confusing when you look into the history and the current standards and what was SUPPOSED to happen vs. what ACTUALLY happened in executing Prop 2 of 2008.
 
Dec 25, 2017
20
42
80
Thank you for bringing this up! I would like to hear from someone with a large-ish farm. How does 1'x1' per hen sound to you? From my recent very small scale chicken experience, this sounds bad. I'm in favor of inexpensive food, respected-not pet luxury, but I think these message boards say 10'-20' per pet. There are a couple of other things that seem like this particular proposition may do as much bad as good. That would be a bummer, as I think there are some current California regulations that could improve. I don't like being on the side of PETA against the Humane Society and I am very confused about this initiative.
Edited to add
SFChron recommends against
https://www.sfchronicle.com//editor...l-The-Chronicle-recommends-no-on-13248637.php Says ballot box is not a good place to decide this.
and
LATimes recommends for http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-proposition12-20180928-story.html Says it's in line with chicken farmers' trade association certification as cage-free operations.
So essentially really unclear.
 
Last edited:

tcfoster

Songster
May 21, 2018
119
183
136
Murphys, CA (Sierra Nevada foothills)
Thank you for bringing this up! I would like to hear from someone with a large-ish farm. How does 1'x1' per hen sound to you? From my recent very small scale chicken experience, this sounds bad. I'm in favor of inexpensive food, respected-not pet luxury, but I think these message boards say 10'-20' per pet. There are a couple of other things that seem like this particular proposition may do as much bad as good. That would be a bummer, as I think there are some current California regulations that could improve. I don't like being on the side of PETA against the Humane Society and I am very confused about this initiative.
Edited to add
SFChron recommends against
https://www.sfchronicle.com//editor...l-The-Chronicle-recommends-no-on-13248637.php Says ballot box is not a good place to decide this.
and
LATimes recommends for http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-proposition12-20180928-story.html Says it's in line with chicken farmers' trade association certification as cage-free operations.
So essentially really unclear.
Yes it is so confusing! It's the only thing I have left to vote on my ballot and I'm still stumped. I will check out the newspaper articles, thanks for sharing!
 

tcfoster

Songster
May 21, 2018
119
183
136
Murphys, CA (Sierra Nevada foothills)
I'm glad somebody else asked about this. I'm as confused as heck, too. Back in 2008, there was a Prop 2 that passed, that ordered that egg factory hens had to be housed in cages that would allow them to fully stand, turn around and stretch out their wings. Another condition of that proposition was that by 2015, chickens had to be cage-free. I don't remember this second part, but it was 10 years ago... Anyway, if chickens now must be allowed enough room to stand, stretch, etc., then 1'x1' seems like *less* space! And now they're suggesting that "cage-free" will go into effect in 2022. If all of this is true, it seems like this is a stalling tactic AND a huge step back for chickens.

I'm seriously thinking of leaving this part of my ballot blank. After recently seeing some really tear-jerker videos of battery hens experiencing life outside of the factory for the first time, I've stopped buying eggs from the store. I get more than enough from my sweet, happy bantam ladies that I don't need to support Big Egg.

Proposition 12 is REALLY confusing when you look into the history and the current standards and what was SUPPOSED to happen vs. what ACTUALLY happened in executing Prop 2 of 2008.
Yep it is really confusing, and I've been focusing on the chicken side of it and haven't even scratched the surface trying to figure out how other livestock would be affected. Will keep everyone posted on what I decide...
 

ShannonR

Free Ranging
5 Years
Sep 17, 2015
2,535
16,846
552
I'm going to vote against. Not because I don't agree, but because California has waaaayy more than enough rules and regulations already. The last thing people, and especially farmers, need are more regulations around here. I already protest factory farmed eggs by keeping my own chickens, in this case I would rather vote with my wallet than the ballot
 

tcfoster

Songster
May 21, 2018
119
183
136
Murphys, CA (Sierra Nevada foothills)
Well, it passed, as I think we all knew it would. I guess we just wait and see how it plays out, and continue to keep our own birds to protest the factory farm eggs. I try to give as many away as possible and encourage anyone who has the means to keep their own chickens as well...
 

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