Questions about cross breeding to make broilers.

[Huskers lover]

I have a question about breeding meat birds. I know it's impossible for me to breed anything that could dethrone the Cornish x as meat king but I want something that grows relatively fast and has a good sized weight. I have been thinking mostly about heritage Cornish crosses with Delawares, New Hampshires, or weight or barred rocks. Also let me know your thoughts on a Cornish x Indian river broiler (delaware x NHR) cross.

 

[Molpet]

Good standard Cornish are hard to find.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I'll assume you have a decent understanding if genetics and how they work. Essentially you need to reinforce the genetics you want and eliminate the genetics you do not want. That means carefully selecting which chickens you want to breed. I don't think you need a deep understanding of genetics, just watch the results.

The Cornish X are a terminal 4-way cross. That means they have four separate grandparent flocks combined a specific way to produce the meat chicken we eat. They will not breed true. When you breed crosses you get a wide result of outcomes, just not consistent. Those genetics get all jumbled up.

The same thing happens when you cross a cross like CX to a pure breed. You still get a mix of genetics from the CX to add to the genetics of the pure breed so you can get a variety of results. If you cross them to a decent dual purpose breed as you intend, you generally get a pretty good meat bird compared to the dual purpose breed but not as good as the CX. But you might get some that you do not want to breed so be selective in choosing your breeders.

Some people think all Delaware, NH, WR or BR are the same. They are not. Some are bred to meet the breed SOP. Not many, but a few. Some are bred for show, for egg production, or for meat. A flock of NH bred for egg production is going to look a lot different from one bred for meat production in body conformation, final size, and rate of growth. I don't like to specify a breed because there can be so much difference in different flocks of the same breed. The traits of the parent flock will have a direct effect in the traits your chicks have.

I do not know what traits would work best for you. CX do not lay well, maybe 140 eggs a year on average. You might want to cross them with a flock that lays well to bring that rate of laying up. Or maybe you can live with the lower egg laying rate for other traits.

My preference in this is to use CX hens and a dual purpose rooster of a couple of reasons. CX roosters can get so big that they have trouble mating. It is not that likely but still possible that they could injure the hen while mating but often they get so bid they just cannot physically mate. You'd have to learn and practice artificial insemination. I've never done that but from what I've seen it doesn't look that hard so it may be something to consider.

Another reason I prefer CX hens is that some breeders use the Dwarf gene to reduce the size and feed requirements for some of the grandfather flocks. Not all do, I think it is more commonly used with Rangers than CX, but it is still one I don't want in my flock. Since it is a recessive sex linked gene you will not get it from the CX hens if it is even there. Since it is recessive it can be hard to eliminate from your flock if it ever gets in.

You may read to not incubate pullet eggs. There are some valid reasons in most situations but that is horrible advice for you if you use CX hens. Even restricting their feed the CX are highly prone to death and injury. If you wait until those CX pullets grow up to start hatching eggs you run a real risk of having no eggs to hatch. Even with the issues you can have with pullet eggs I'd have the incubator ready and start hatching right away.

You can find threads in this "Meat Bird" section where people have crossed CX with Dual Purpose chickens. I haven't seen one for a while but they are there if you dig deep enough.

Good luck!

 

[NatJ]

I have been thinking mostly about heritage Cornish crosses with Delawares, New Hampshires, or weight or barred rocks. Also let me know your thoughts on a Cornish x Indian river broiler (delaware x NHR) cross.

Do you mean "heritage Cornish" being crossed with other things?
Or do you mean the modern "Cornish Cross" being mixed with other things?

I see @Ridgerunner has talked about what happens if you mix the modern Cornish Cross broilers with other things, and about the difference in the "same" breed if you get it from a hatchery vs. a breeder vs. a different hatchery or different breeder.

If you want to get heritage Cornish chickens (Dark Cornish or White Laced Red Cornish or whatever), they are not very common. A few hatcheries have them, but they are pretty similar to any other dual-purpose breed in body type. Some breeders would have Cornish that meet the actual breed standard, with a much larger breast and some other differences from the hatchery version.

If you use good breeder-quality purebred Cornish in your crosses, you should get birds that are a bit meatier than if you just mix other dual-purpose breeds. Be aware that good quality Cornish are rather slow growing and tend to be poor layers.
Here is a thread where someone talks about raising purebred White Cornish as meat birds. They've got some nice pictures, and if I remember rightly there is some talk about how many eggs and about some physical challenges (like the males with the biggest breasts being the least effective at mating.)
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-sustainable-flock-for-meat-and-more.1069243/
(Note, the original poster of that thread has not been seen on the site in years, so you probably cannot get advice or birds directly from them.)

Hatchery-quality Cornish are going to be pretty similar to any other dual purpose chicken. They might be a little bit more meaty than hatchery-quality examples of other breeds, but not by much. They will typically be better layers than good breeder-quality birds, and they may also grow faster (maybe.)

I've seen Cornish Bantams from a hatchery (Ideal Poultry) that do seem to have the really round, meaty shape that people like in broilers. Being small, they also seem to avoid the health problems that usually goes with that shape in a larger chicken.

Using modern Cornish Cross broilers will probably give better results than anything you can do with purebred Cornish, if "better" means faster growth and more meat. But if you don't want to deal with the health problems of the modern Cornish Cross, then yes you might consider trying to source some nice meaty Cornish from a breeder.

I want something that grows relatively fast and has a good sized weight. I have been thinking mostly about heritage Cornish crosses with Delawares, New Hampshires, or weight or barred rocks. Also let me know your thoughts on a Cornish x Indian river broiler (delaware x NHR) cross.

If you have easy access to hatchery birds but not breeder stock, you could buy a few males each of several breeds, then raise them together to a certain age, then weigh each one. Based on what you see, you can then buy males and females of the kinds that were best, and use them as the start of your own breeding lines.

Or if you are attracted to a particular breed, you can buy them from several different hatcheries and/or breeders and compare how they do, then continue with the ones that were best.

I suggest weighing at an age that it might be reasonable to butcher (8 weeks if you like them tender, 12 or 16 weeks if you want them larger, several ages if you want a more thorough comparison.)