Rabbit raid?

[MaryHammond]

I think something is radically missing in the whole discussion of poop and Debe Bell's rabbits. People who want no poop, those who think there is too much poop. Come on people, we raise rabbits right?

What is a sign of serious emergency illness in rabbits? No poop. As rabbit breeders, we WANT poop, lots and lots of poop, 24 hours a day poop, poop constantly, poop everywhere, because pooping rabbits are healthy rabbits? Remember everybody? Hello? Why are rabbit breeders suddenly acting like poop in a rabbit cage is a PROBLEM to be avoided at all costs?

Have you all lost your minds???

I mean, come on people, we all know, we don't buy rabbits that do not poop and poop and poop.

So why are we trying to put limits on how much poop should be in a cage? Two balls? Ten Balls?

How about a pile of poop on TOP of two inches of shavings? I mean, when you looked at the pic from AC, did you happen to notice there were shavings in the trays? And poop on top?

And some of you on this thread, I have looked at your rabbit for sale pics, and guess what? There is poop in your pics. Now the pics with twenty poops? Are those acceptable? Or is that too much? Forty poops? Where do we draw the line at how many poop balls are on top of a pile of shavings?

How picky do we all have to be here? No poop in cages is acceptable? If I come to your rabbitry, and I see no poop in your cages, guess what? I ain't buyin your rabbits. They either have G.I. Stasis or they have wool block, either way, you get to keep them......

This whole deal with Debe Bell has brought rabbit breeders into a total state of denial of reality.
Snap out of it. Defend poop. We LIKE poop, we LIKE poop because we raise rabbits.

 

[user104534]

It really does help to view cases like this from multiple points of view so you can decide for yourself.

Check out this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...f-s_n_930285.html#s332769&title=Feces_In_Cage

 

[MaryHammond]

Quote:
Yes and we all saw those when they first came out. And what is the first picture of, fellow rabbit breeders? A gorgeous, healthy, shiny, bunny in a poopy cage.

What is the number one sign of good rabbit husbandry? POOP. We must have POOP.
No poop=bad, sick, dying rabbit. Lots of poop= the rabbit in picture released by animal control.

Thank you Jefferson County Animal Control. A picture speaks a thousand words.......

 

[Fawkes]

Quote:
That doesn't mean they should live in their own poop. Do you see pet rabbit owners keeping rabbits in filthy cages? No? Why should "livestock" rabbits then?

Rabbits poop a lot, yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to keep them clean. I've kept rabbits my whole life. I line their cages with newspaper and replace the newspaper everyday. Takes a few minutes at most.

I certainly wouldnt buy from someone who kept their rabbits in filthy cages. They should have the sense to clean them the day that someone comes to their house to look at their rabbits. Some poop is acceptable, yes, I would expect to see poop, but not a few hundred poops.

 

[MaryHammond]

Quote:
That doesn't mean they should live in their own poop. Do you see pet rabbit owners keeping rabbits in filthy cages? No? Why should "livestock" rabbits then?

Rabbits poop a lot, yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to keep them clean. I've kept rabbits my whole life. I line their cages with newspaper and replace the newspaper everyday. Takes a few minutes at most.

I certainly wouldnt buy from someone who kept their rabbits in filthy cages. They should have the sense to clean them the day that someone comes to their house to look at their rabbits. Some poop is acceptable, yes, I would expect to see poop, but not a few hundred poops.

Well we would disagree then Fawkes. Because if you cleaned your cages before I arrived to buy, I wouldn't buy. I HAVE to see the poop or the deal is off. Because like I said earlier, the first question the vet always asks about a sick rabbit....is his pooping slowing down???? The first thing a breeder tells a newbie....watch the poop...if it slows down you are in trouble. So...if you clean your cage before I arrive, how do I know you are not selling me a set of stopped up bowels? Your word? Call me a cynic, but I prefer to see the evidence, not hear about it secondhand. I want to see how much that rabbit poops. I want to see the shape and size of the poop. I want to see if it is strung together with hair or nice and seperate. I want to see if it is wet, mushy or dry.... And if I can't see that, well, call me when you get serious about making a sale.

 

[Fawkes]

Quote:
That doesn't mean they should live in their own poop. Do you see pet rabbit owners keeping rabbits in filthy cages? No? Why should "livestock" rabbits then?

Rabbits poop a lot, yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to keep them clean. I've kept rabbits my whole life. I line their cages with newspaper and replace the newspaper everyday. Takes a few minutes at most.

I certainly wouldnt buy from someone who kept their rabbits in filthy cages. They should have the sense to clean them the day that someone comes to their house to look at their rabbits. Some poop is acceptable, yes, I would expect to see poop, but not a few hundred poops.

Well we would disagree then Fawkes. Because if you cleaned your cages before I arrived to buy, I wouldn't buy. I HAVE to see the poop or the deal is off. Because like I said earlier, the first question the vet always asks about a sick rabbit....is his pooping slowing down???? The first thing a breeder tells a newbie....watch the poop...if it slows down you are in trouble. So...if you clean your cage before I arrive, how do I know you are not selling me a set of stopped up bowels? Your word? Call me a cynic, but I prefer to see the evidence, not hear about it secondhand. I want to see how much that rabbit poops. I want to see the shape and size of the poop. I want to see if it is strung together with hair or nice and seperate. I want to see if it is wet, mushy or dry.... And if I can't see that, well, call me when you get serious about making a sale.

There should be plenty of poop if the owner cleaned the cages the same day. While I'm cleaning my rabbit cages for 5-10 minutes my rabbit Jack has been known to poop 20 times. In just 5-10 minutes.

Or if someone is coming in the morning to see the rabbits, the owner can clean them the day before. But there shouldn't be mounds of poop. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[ilovehome]

That doesn't mean they should live in their own poop. Do you see pet rabbit owners keeping rabbits in filthy cages? No? Why should "livestock" rabbits then?

Rabbits poop a lot, yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to keep them clean. I've kept rabbits my whole life. I line their cages with newspaper and replace the newspaper everyday. Takes a few minutes at most.

I certainly wouldnt buy from someone who kept their rabbits in filthy cages. They should have the sense to clean them the day that someone comes to their house to look at their rabbits. Some poop is acceptable, yes, I would expect to see poop, but not a few hundred poops.

So, the poop is piled as high in the cage as the rabbit. The rabbit is a good weight, shiny fur, no eye discharge, no sores on feet, no snot--appears in excellent condition. Now what? Can the government seize this bunny or not?​

 

[MaryHammond]

There should be plenty of poop if the owner cleaned the cages the same day. While I'm cleaning my rabbit cages for 5-10 minutes my rabbit Jack has been known to poop 20 times. In just 5-10 minutes.

Or if someone is coming in the morning to see the rabbits, the owner can clean them the day before. But there shouldn't be mounds of poop. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Debe doesn't defend the dirty cage. She knows it is dirty and was shortly to be cleaned, actually two days later. But the reality is, as someone else stated, is this abuse? Show me the abuse? Where is the abuse? What we see is a perfectly healthy, glossy, brighteyed rabbit. No health issues. Even AC did not dare claim this was a sick rabbit, only a dirty cage. So again, where is the abuse?
If the rabbit was to live like this year round, then there is an issue, yes. But considering 193 other cages did NOT look like this and four or five did, which were to be cleaned the following Saturday....where exactly is the abuse? Where is it, Fawkes?

As far as mounds go, again, I point you to my page where I and several other breeders have been painstakingly trying different conditions, weighing poop, checking it out. I had a good size mound going for a moulting rabbit just four days after cleaning. Four days. So the ones that state she could not have cleaned her cages in months? That is just wrong.
My point is people no longer seem to have a realistic idea of what rabbits actually do....but check it out Fawkes. A four day poop photo journal.
http://www.weedflemishgiantrabbitry.com/id481.html​

 

[redhen]

Quote:
How sad that those animals were living in such filth. How very sick...
Shame on her.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
That doesn't mean they should live in their own poop. Do you see pet rabbit owners keeping rabbits in filthy cages? No? Why should "livestock" rabbits then?

Rabbits poop a lot, yes, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible to keep them clean. I've kept rabbits my whole life. I line their cages with newspaper and replace the newspaper everyday. Takes a few minutes at most.

I certainly wouldnt buy from someone who kept their rabbits in filthy cages. They should have the sense to clean them the day that someone comes to their house to look at their rabbits. Some poop is acceptable, yes, I would expect to see poop, but not a few hundred poops.

Yep.. Sure rabbits poop a lot..
Ya know what? You have to CLEAN up that poop. Again, not rocket science here folks....
I would NEVER buy a rabbit that i saw living in such filthy conditions... but i would leave and call animal control to try to get those animals some help.
But we will see what a judge says... I have a STRONG feeling that she will be let off..
Oh well...
Whens the court date again??