Raising fighting breeds to be friendly?

[Dudu]

I was wondering if with roosters of fighting breeds extensive socialization helps also (like e.g. with dogs of these breeds), or it makes it worse? I am being told that in fact "the more tame they are, the more they will want to fight". Is this a fact or an old wive's tale?

How to raise them to be friendly to people and especially to other roosters, or is this impossible?

 

[Chef]

I don't have much experience with them but I think you may be able to get them to be friendly enough to handle them but I don't think your gonna get the fight out of them. There are some who can be more docile then others but it's just instinct. Jmo


Chef

 

[centrarchid]

Quote:
Bottom maybe more informative to you interests.

Most of the existing game breeds have been so thoroughly selected for the gameness attribute (not willing to stop fighting even when loosing) that males can can not be confined together as adults. Thus problem you will encounter is not one of nurture (socialization), rather it is of nature (genetics). With American games, hens generally not a problem at least within our flocks. You will have to get inputs on those with oriental breeds as they may be more aggressive on the hen side. As for taming making them meaner, that is male bovine feces. The increased aggression encountered by keepers of "tamed" birds is largely a function of incompetence of trainer. Do not be scared of bird and do not reward bad behavior. I many ways, game chickens and jungle fowl are very smart like monkeys and will test your boundaries.

I have had games all my life and did some inadvertant experimenting with cull roosters in hen house. A group of five to ten juvenile males would be confined with a much larger group of 100 to 120 hens, mostly white Plymouth rocks and Rhode Islands reds but with 30 to 40 game hens. Then as the roosters matured everything seemed to go OK until they became 10 to 12 months old, then they would start fighting and would not stop. If one survived fighting, then it would be in such poor condition that it would not be able to get up to a 3 foot roost owing to extensive feather damage. Damage to eyes also a high probability.


When it comes to keeping male games, or females for that matter, as pets they are difficult to beat. They have also been bred for good dispositions and calm nature around humans. A couple lines are reputed as man-fighters which should be avoided for your interest but they are actually hard to find. Many of the more skilled keepers of game chickens quickly tame roosters through a minimal amount of effort to allow handing. In my experience, only silkies might rival games in ease of training for handling. Last year I set aside some game chicks and literally hand-raised them for use in flight and weight monitoring experiements. I was interested in getting them to fly long distances for filming and to come to me when called regardless of where they were. They had to jump / fly up on table to and stand on scale so weight could be determined rapidly without stressing birds. I wanted hen to bring chicks for same purpose without risk of her flogging me in face like her mother was inclined to do. Eventually I want to have method where a good number of semi-confined adults can be counted on to report to mobile weigh table on daily basis without me breaking my back. The hand-raised birds tamed and trained well beyond my expectations to such a degree that I could allow children to handle adult rooster and hen without risk of harm to kids or stress on birds. They come when individual names called. They will run through a crowd of people to get to me when called. My American dominiques reared under same conditions would not do so. Chicks reared by trained hen even easier to train as she somehow promotes process.

See following thread related to this with pictures.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=407880

 

[Dudu]

I'm sorry for leaving this thread off without a reply, but I'm back now.

Thanks a lot, Chef and centrarchid, for your responses.

centrarchid, wow, what you describe is pretty amazing. I truly regret now not getting to know chickens before, I was always with dogs only (and naughty rabbits! who thought they were dogs too, LOL).

I went to your link and saw the pics, wow!

Thanks, I thought so about the taming thing and them becoming as if more aggressive. Glad to hear it's not so.

My little rooster Dudu (pictured below, not sure of the breed) looks very much like the Aseel/Shamo mixes we have, and since I have raised him from about 2 (?) weeks of age, he's my pet and I'd like to keep it this way. However, my observation with him (and his two sisters as well) that he's acting as if distrustful, doesn't always like to be handled, but comes to me willingly for yummies. Otherwise it's often "no thanks, I better stay in my hutch". Really depends on his mood, I'd say!

One thing he does is try to peck me (rather hard compared to the gentle pecking he can do when he tries to nibble my hands for some interesting dots) when I put my fingers against the wire of the crate. (Basically before opening his hutch.) So what I did is just turn my back to him and pretend to get busy with other things, it SEEMS that it helped as he was able to refrain from doing it when I approached him 2 min later.

My partner once showed him another young rooster through the wire and Dudu's "hackles" on the neck all went up. He is now only about 3 months old.

Can you recommend a good article about chicken behaviour, body language and mental capabilities, or any links to your earlier posts, especially about these breeds? What you wrote about training yours is very interesting indeed, how intelligent these birds are...

This is my Dudu a few weeks ago:

 

[Dudu]

P.S. Just to explain, I didn't just go out and buy myself a rooster of a potentially fighting breednot knowing anything about chickens, it's just that their colour as babies seemed interesting to me when we saw them at our friend's place (who to my knowledge only has one hen of this type of breed, the rest are not) and our friend offered us to take a few. I don't think the breeder knows the exact parents as his flock just roams on his farm. They (my boy Dudu and girls Bindi and Shakti) are my first ones that are "my" babies, but my flock of favourites is growing now.
Incidentally, my partner had previously adopted a Shamo rooster formerly used for fighting (which is to my knowledge illegal in this country), he had broken his beak and my partner just adopted him to keep him, now HE is aggressive to people also, the only people-aggressive one on our farm. I just don't want Dudu to ever become like him so I want to do things right and avoid any mistakes in his upbringing.

 

[centrarchid]

I was raised around games myself, but like you personal interest initially involved coloration. Interest in coloration ramped up when a grey toppy rooster (first one from outside our breeding I can remember) with yellow legs and funny looking comb (later found out was pea comb) was used to cover walk on my grandparents farm. Prior to that our games were pretty consistent in coloration, either brown breasted brown-red or black breasted red with a few red quill mixed in for good measure. That grey toppy's his descendents were all over the place in terms of looks stimulating my interest in how appearance was inherited. That experiment was not allowed to continue on our other walks but grandparents let me play with all I wanted with those on their place. Shamoos, at least of the form in the U.S. are not regarded as being consistently game despite looking very much like Aseels which generally are game.

Fighting is no longer legal in any of the states but I am not certain in respect to U.S. territories. It still goes on and much of the crowd still doing it is a rougher bunch than the farmers, lawyers, doctors, and teachers that used to predominate, at least in the area I am from.

The scrappines will be exhibited between almost all chickens that do not have social rank worked out.

My birds will occasional peck at me but it seldom seems out of aggression. I also make certain to ignore their pecking as well which prevents them from geting any sort of reward. DO NOT FLINCH, BACK AWAY, SWAT THEM OR FEED THEM FOLLOWING ANY BEHAVIOR FROM THEM THAT MIGHT BE AGGRESSION DIRECTED AT YOU.

Other parties are much more in the know about the oriental games as I am biased against such birds. For me, their cold tolerance and flight capabilites leave much to be desired. See following link to thread discussing games. Two parties I have seen that you may ask questions of that also seem very capable of comparing attributes of different game types are Saladin and Lollipop.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=106767


Several books on following link can be starting point for observing and understanding behavior.
http://www.amazon.com/Chicken-raising-books-I-want/lm/1LV0NEYW89AC
For more detail your are going to have to look at scientific literature.

Some of my threads that might be of interest.

Observations on free range behavior.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=451333

Trying to get birds to produce very long flights suitable for filming. I have had games in past that flew greater than 1200 feet horizontally and I am trying to repeat and film entire flight. This is process. I may be two years away from desired result as birds to be used can not be tame like those in use now. Walk raised birds will be generated that are not handled so will be good and flightly.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=388547

 

[JodyJo]

I recently told by a friend these two are fighting roosters...
the first one a Golden Duckwing and the 2nd an Wheaten Old English...
when I purchased them I was told they were just EE's...they are mixes, but to the point, the Wheaten is
alpha roo, very protective, and always on alert...

I am glad I have the 2 of them, I don't have that much experience with chickens, this is my 2nd year
and was shocked when I was told these two could be fighting roosters...
they are not aggressive towards me, a little to my young son of 5...but that's good, keeps him in line also!

You have some great info provided to you...I will take the time to read it all myself later when I have time!

 

[centrarchid]

JodyJo,
Both birds may have some game in their recent ancestry but both appear to have other infliuences as well. The golden duckwing with muff throat does look like an EE but EE's are extremely variable. The other does not appear wheaten, color pattern I do not recognize.

 

[JodyJo]

Quote:
someone suggested Sebright....I don't know either...but he is doing job