Ranger breeding project

[zebradreams07]

Ordering on line I think is what ultimately will happen... but first I am going to raise up the CXs and a random assortment of breeds, cull heavily. I also have some eggs in incubation of rare breeds... so first get that all squared away. Next live chick order will include Rangers is the plan.

I do have several concerns with the CXs... one is they grow faster than their skeletal system. Other health issues too. So I am not raising to maximize meat growth to see how that works out for better health. I am not really expecting much from this experiment especially since I have read a lot of folks have failed at breeding Cx stock let alone just raising to eat.

I don’t have Cornish but I did hatch out two Aseel mixes... these should be very much like Cornish Indian Ancestors were... so that gives me some interesting cross breeding options.

As to AI I was all ready going to try it to use it on a laying hen. So adventures in chicken keeping it is...

Well, all chickens trace back to some kind of game fowl at one point, but they're pretty much the opposite of a modern meat bird!

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Very true. Most game fowl are lighter... but some breeds are beasts size wise so I will see how these oriental mixes mature. One is a pretty big chick. Any how I look forward to seeing how your breeding works out.

I am planning a few experiments with my production birds.

 

[Torinik]

I'm doing a meat-hybrid x layer-hybrid cross. I've been in doubt wether the meat-chickens around here is what most people would call a cornish-cross. Reading on weights here on BYC and general growth rates, I'm starting to think they were. I kept 2 roosters for breeding to my brahma's. Their sister (I wanted hens for the brahma roosters but ended up with boys) dropped dead at 4 months and that was a very wide and plumpy chicken, another reason why I think they actually were cornishX. And indeed, the bigger one of the 2 roosters didn't fertilize a single egg. I have since learned to watch my birds and can tell a capable rooster from a not so capable one.

Restricting feed. I didn't only limit the amount but also gave them nothing but mixed grains, which works out to be about 11 to 12% protein in the mix I bought. This to cover their caloric needs. I kept them hungry though and they foraged quite well for extra protein. Less protein means less growth and less meat, that's why bodybuilders crave protein so much. ;D
I did, however, still end up with big and heavy birds. The bigger one probably had too big a chest to do a proper 'deed'.

The reason I put layer eggs in with the brahma eggs was because I had the space in the incubator and to see if anything would hatch. All the layer eggs hatched and none of the brahma's did.

I'm happy with my cross so far, but I'm only at the beginning. My first F2 batch has matured and, except for one hen, they got eaten already. I had a couple more F2 batches that are growing now and the next generation is in the incubator.

Wether it's worth it or not, is another question. They do not grow nearly as fast and big as the cornishX, but the hens lay very well and very big (70 - 80 grams) eggs for now. The F2 hen I kept lays less and very small eggs (50 grams) compared to the F1 hens. I'm not using her for breeding and am hoping her younger sisters will do better when they start laying soon.
One reason I'm happy doing this is that chickens are harder and harder to come by. We used to have several weekly markets where you could buy whatever in small livestock. Those days are over. It was very easy going to market, buy 10 meat birds, grow them and start over again. It's an expedition now to find meat birds at times.

At least, if this goes well, I'll end up with a bird that grows reasonably fast, lays well and has a fair amount of meat on the bones. And one that I can sustain without being dependent on unreliable supply.
Why not go for an established dual-purpose breed? Well, I ended up here by coincidence so might as well have a look where the road leads to. Also, chickens have become very popular around here, everybody is breeding them and unfortunately this shows in the quality (no judgement here, the only way to learn is through hands-on practice). The price charged for bad quality breeders is another factor.
For instance, I've had genetic issues with my brahma's that took years to improve and sometimes still show up. Although I have strong, healthy and hardy brahma's now they are nowhere near the hardiness of the cross. And they grow so painfully slow compared to the cross.
Hopefully I can keep the good qualities in the cross while improving on the not so good ones.

 

[zebradreams07]

I'm doing a meat-hybrid x layer-hybrid cross. I've been in doubt wether the meat-chickens around here is what most people would call a cornish-cross. Reading on weights here on BYC and general growth rates, I'm starting to think they were. I kept 2 roosters for breeding to my brahma's. Their sister (I wanted hens for the brahma roosters but ended up with boys) dropped dead at 4 months and that was a very wide and plumpy chicken, another reason why I think they actually were cornishX. And indeed, the bigger one of the 2 roosters didn't fertilize a single egg. I have since learned to watch my birds and can tell a capable rooster from a not so capable one.

Restricting feed. I didn't only limit the amount but also gave them nothing but mixed grains, which works out to be about 11 to 12% protein in the mix I bought. This to cover their caloric needs. I kept them hungry though and they foraged quite well for extra protein. Less protein means less growth and less meat, that's why bodybuilders crave protein so much. ;D
I did, however, still end up with big and heavy birds. The bigger one probably had too big a chest to do a proper 'deed'.

The reason I put layer eggs in with the brahma eggs was because I had the space in the incubator and to see if anything would hatch. All the layer eggs hatched and none of the brahma's did.

I'm happy with my cross so far, but I'm only at the beginning. My first F2 batch has matured and, except for one hen, they got eaten already. I had a couple more F2 batches that are growing now and the next generation is in the incubator.

Wether it's worth it or not, is another question. They do not grow nearly as fast and big as the cornishX, but the hens lay very well and very big (70 - 80 grams) eggs for now. The F2 hen I kept lays less and very small eggs (50 grams) compared to the F1 hens. I'm not using her for breeding and am hoping her younger sisters will do better when they start laying soon.
One reason I'm happy doing this is that chickens are harder and harder to come by. We used to have several weekly markets where you could buy whatever in small livestock. Those days are over. It was very easy going to market, buy 10 meat birds, grow them and start over again. It's an expedition now to find meat birds at times.

At least, if this goes well, I'll end up with a bird that grows reasonably fast, lays well and has a fair amount of meat on the bones. And one that I can sustain without being dependent on unreliable supply.
Why not go for an established dual-purpose breed? Well, I ended up here by coincidence so might as well have a look where the road leads to. Also, chickens have become very popular around here, everybody is breeding them and unfortunately this shows in the quality (no judgement here, the only way to learn is through hands-on practice). The price charged for bad quality breeders is another factor.
For instance, I've had genetic issues with my brahma's that took years to improve and sometimes still show up. Although I have strong, healthy and hardy brahma's now they are nowhere near the hardiness of the cross. And they grow so painfully slow compared to the cross.
Hopefully I can keep the good qualities in the cross while improving on the not so good ones.

Certainly sounds like Cornish X, but remember they're a proprietary hybrid from commercial hatcheries - local breeders would only have them if they're reselling. And F1 won't breed true even if both parents are Cornish X, so no one can just reproduce more.

I'm planning to mostly do Ranger x Ranger the first few generations for that reason, and try to select for their better traits and cull out what doesn't fit. But I'll probably end up hatching out some layer mutts too, and anything that looks promising could go in the program. If nothing else a ranger roo would hopefully add some growth over layer hens.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Dwarf Gene in Production Lines.

I am trying to understand the genetics of both my layers sex links and the Cornishx I found... seems the broiler industry uses hens with the dwarf gene which is a Z chromosome gene (sex linked) and then cross a normal rooster with Dw/Dw genes on their two ZZ chromosomes... they do this because then the breeding hen is 30% smaller, requires less space and less feed... this sort of thing may not be limited to CornishX lines and I am wondering now about the other broiler hybrids and breeds as “lines” are used.

In addition I found a study indicating that hatcheries may start moving Laying lines of breeds and hybrids this way too using bantam x standard... for all the same reasons... they are starting to develop bantam lines of specific sizes that produce eggs the same amount as standard breeds to use in crossing to produce standard hybrid production breeds, or breed specific lines such as Leghorn. I think it is all still in the study phase but if it proves profitable I can see copyrighted lines of specific breeds that are then used to produce purebred standard size layers.

Anyway for figuring out what’s in your broilers, since the gene is sex linked the pullets of the broilers from the hatchery will not carry the dw gene but the cockerels will.... I know CornishX uses dwarf hens but not sure if they do this with other “breeds” but I think they may. So if you were to use a broiler rooster for breeding and there are chicks it sires that don’t really grow like the others, stay way smaller, then I am guessing those pullets would have the dwarf (dw) gene.

Anyway that is what I am understanding.

 

[Compost King]

Sounds like a time consuming project, I used to have a lot of those then I learned I can only have one and I can't even have that now until after I move to a bigger plot of land. I myself love Red Rangers and I loved crossing them with heritage birds to make some really good table birds.

my 2 cents on the dwarf gene... its irrelevant to me, if I am making meat birds the last thing I concern myself with is overall size. If Bigger really meant better the Broiler Industry would be dominated by Jersey Giants. If the result of breeding a CX means some of them end up at 70% of the size of the CX they will eat 30% less feed (I doubt the math is that simple but I keep my points simple) and what makes a great meat bird is how fast it puts on weight not how much weight it puts on at the end. For your breeding project, to make a sustainable breed I can see why it would matter to you.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

I am wondering what would make most sustainable approach. I have 3 choices to attempt to build off of the birds I have breed broiler to broiler, broiler rooster to Another Breed hen, and Another Breed rooster to broiler hen. What I do is really dependent on how these chicks mature health wise and ultimately what breeds I add to the flock.

My preference at this point is to eventually order Freedom Rangers, Kosher Kings and maybe a dual Purpose breed... still kicking around what breed that would be.

I wonder how many Ranger lines there are, what the mystery American and European Heritage breeds were that made the first Rangers as that seems to be a big secret... I spent some time looking at hatchery sites. Freedom Rangers can gain pretty fast from articles I read, so making sure you don’t over feed them appears to have been a problem for a few folks.

Broiler breeds, lines, minus the various CornishX lines... There are probably hundreds of broiler lines... but trying to get a feel for who has what.

Freedom Rangers... seem to be original line of Rangers from the French Breeding program, trademarked.

It looks like maybe a few hatcheries carry Freedom Rangers but most developed their own Red Broilers either from scratch using a variety of breeds or using Freedom Rangers as a base?

Murray’s Big Red Broiler appears to be a modified Red Ranger line.

Cackle Freedom Rangers... Ranger line.
Cackle Kosher King... not a Ranger but related to Rangers as Freedom Rangers used to create.
Cackle Color Yield Ranger... RedBro female crossed to Color Yield rooster.
Cackle Red Broiler...? Ancestry?

Stormberg’s Red Broiler... unknown if Red Ranger based or other.

Ideal’s Red Broilers... appear to be CornishX that was crossed with an unspecified Red Breed and then selectively bred to create a red broiler breed not as fast growing as Cx. There Black Broilers are similarly created.

Hoover’s Rudd Ranger... Ancestry? Could be a Ranger based or recreated? Or something else?

Privet Red Broiler... Ancestry?

Meyer Hatchery Rainbow Ranger... seems to be several lines of broilers, RedBro, TriColor, and other colors. Ancestry? Possibly Ranger base.

Meyer Hatchery Grey Ranger... Kosher Kings which are Rangers with Sussex and Barred Rock in ancestry.

Purely Poultry has Red Rangers, Kosher Kings and several other broiler lines. They also carry Silkie Broilers which I am sure is a mix of breeds... there has been a few projects here before these even existed in USA with the idea of creating bigger silkies for AsIan market maybe someone had success? I hope so... I got silkies...

Welp has a Freedom along with slow white and red broilers.

Freedom Ranger Hatchery, Freedom Rangers, Kosher Kings, Jackies (replacing the Red Rangers), Color Yield Rangers

The below Red Broilers I know were being sold but not sure which hatcheries... maybe they have been renamed, or replaced with other lines?

Dixie Ranger

Pioneer

Gingernut Ranger

 

[Compost King]

The Red Rangers I had and bred did not need their feed rationed, I kept their feeder full and they still foraged first then hit the feeder. I would hatch out their mixed offspring about the same time I bought CX and when I ration fed the CX the Half Red Rangers I had would take the lead on foraging and the CX I saved for breeding (failed BTW) would follow the half Red Ranger to the compost piles to forage. Eventually they too would forage first then eat the rationed feed I set out. I had Slow White broilers too but they all died too young to give any details. Not sure why they died but I got them at Tractor supply.

Other notes about Red Rangers, the hens laid eggs earlier than Heritage Breed or hybrid I have ever had, even sooner than the white leghorns I had. I can't remember exactly how long it was but it was June when they laid and the White Leghorns of the same age laid their first eggs in July. The Red laying hybrid (not sure which one in particular) started laying August. One of my Red Rangers laid an egg so big that when I put them in my egg turner I had to stagger them with Bantam eggs or they would not fit. My egg Turner supposedly can hold duck eggs so maybe one of my Red Rangers laid eggs bigger than a duck. The other Red Ranger eggs were quite large too. Probably not duck sized but I have yet to eggs from another breed as large.

I wish I had kept a Red Ranger male to breed then back to themselves but I only kept females and crossed them with various heritage roosters. I loved the results. Fairly large and still fairly young. the oldest I processed was 18 weeks and huge, I also processed them at 12 weeks and were still very meaty.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Oh that is really good info on the Red Rangers... makes me wonder if the folks who said they had some RR over eating if those had Cx in them...

They sound awesome... started laying sooner that’s a plus in my book.

I have noticed the 4 White Broiler chicks I bought do not act super ravenous, they pretty much act like other chickens. As soon as I released them today to the main yard they ran right out, started exploring, very active... not the lethargic thing at all I have read about.

 

[Geena]

I've been working on something similar for a few years, my meat birds are a mix of Blue Orpington, Cornish x and Red Rangers. I ordered some red broilers last year because I wanted to bring in an unrelated male, and wasn't too happy with the way they grew out. Basically they were just like Cornish xs, just red instead of white. They laid around all day next to the coop instead of free ranging and turned into feathered bowling balls. The male I kept, one of the smallest ones, still grew to a monstrous size and is incapable of breeding.
I would suggest you begin with a dual purpose rooster over ranger hens and select from there if you want a bird that will act more like a "normal" chicken. If you want buff and broody, Buff Orpingtons might be a good choice.