Ranger breeding project

[zebradreams07]

I know I'm not the first person to have this idea, so before I dive in and go full crazy chicken lady (I'm already the crazy goat lady!) I'd love to hear from people who have attempted breeding Rangers before - from whichever proprietary line. What were your goals, what worked or didn't, what's the status of your flock if you're still raising them, or what was your reason for quitting if you aren't?

My goals would be to create a true-breeding, sustainable bird that's healthy enough to live a full breeding life, but with better grow out and carcass than cull layer cockerels. Enough egg production for decent chick crops - not on par with layer breeds, although of course they could be eaten as a side product, the same way extra layer birds can be used for meat. Not a true dual purpose breed, because there doesn't seem to be much interest in them these days. Hopefully with broody tendencies, because I feel that mothering ability is a crucial trait in sustainable breeds - not relying on human intervention to survive. People can always incubate if they want a large batch for butcher, but in my mind that goes along the same lines as relying on hatcheries to produce proprietary hybrids. A lower priority goal, probably a few generations in, would be to shift them to a different color so they stand out from the hatchery breeds. Still something light for clean carcasses; maybe buff? I would be introducing some layer birds here and there to maintain genetic vigor and improve some traits such as the egg production, so I can bring new color in that way. Any area thee seen to be weak in, I can look for existing breeds that could strengthen it without losing other qualities. Yes, this is obviously a long term project! Quality takes time

Thoughts?

 

[jolenesdad]

The original people who owned the trademark for Freedom Rangers before they sold it to the folks at Freedom Ranger Hatchery were once active on this forum, like 10 years ago. There's a really informative thread they posted when they were getting out of the business if you're interested I can try and find the link.

Just about every single colored broiler in the USA comes from Hubbard genetics. The Freedom Ranger is not specifically anything different, it is just the name that is trademarked. The bird is from Hubbard. The Label Rouge birds are Sasso I think?

Hubbard works with each hatchery that wants to keep a breeder flock to "design" the broiler they want using a limited amount of grandparent stock. They are all incredibly similar.

I spoke with a VP of Hubbard this year about setting up a breeder/parent flock. Of all the red broilers on the market in 2020, Murray McMurray's Red Broiler has the best growth rate. In typical backyard settings where you are not buying large amounts of bulk feed, the difference amongst the target growth and feed conversion rates for red broilers is fairly negligible.

When a hatchery uses the same name of a bird (like Welp selling a Freedom Ranger), they are drop shipping from the origin. That happens with anyone who sells a Freedom Ranger or a Kosher King, those are trademarked names.

It's a little grey area with some names whether it is still drop shipped, but they change the name to something generic, or, whether they have their own unique breeder flock, or, whether they just purchase eggs.

Regardless of whether they purchase and incubate eggs, have their own breeder flock and unique line, or drop ship from another hatchery, most all of the red broiler genetics come back to Hubbard. Ideal has their "own line" that they manage and breed, however, they also used to purchase all their stock from Hubbard, so once again, those genetics go right back to Hubbard.

The european and world hubbard sites are more forthcoming with understanding some of the parent stock they use to develop the lines.

For the OP, what you are trying to do is what Murray McMurray did in 2020 with the "Enhanced Broiler Delaware". It is a delaware with meat bird genetics crossed in, and then bred back to Delawares to get closer to the standard for Delaware.

There are several breeders of standard-bred heritage bird flocks with incredibly utility birds... Frank Reese's Barred Rocks, Mike Omeg's New Hampshires, which may be worth a look for you. They're EXPENSIVE and difficult to get your hands on, but, may actually save you lots of money in the long run. They are NOTHING like any kind of heritage bird you've likely seen, and may actually be close to what you are hoping to get to, without having to go through generations of work.

My only other comment is that my hold-over laying hens from my meat bird flocks smash a LOT of eggs. They're just so heavy and cumbersome in a nesting box. If you used roll away boxes this would work to collect the eggs, but I'd be slightly concerned with broodiness in a large bird you're trying to create.

 

[jolenesdad]

I would be very interested in reading this if you can find it. Thanks

Found it!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/freedom-rangers-i-will-give-you-the-true-story.61284/

what I found most interesting about the thread is on page 2, Joel, owner of JM Hatchery (now known as freedom ranger hatchery), says that they already were producing the “same bird” as the freedom ranger.

Hubbard used the same genetics to create the birds for both hatcheries, but Barbara owned the trademark to call it Freedom Ranger.

 

[duluthralphie]

Cross your rangers to a CX and make a toad..

 

[Morrigan]

I shared this in another thread, but I've been very pleased with crossing my Naked Neck rooster over a red ranger hen. I've incubated 8 of her eggs now. All fertile all hatched, all huge healthy chicks. She is over a year now and still looking pretty good, although she still lays an occasion soft shelled egg and struggles a bit in the hot weather. I've got a mister set up in the shade, and she isn't afraid to get wet, standing under it to keep cool. The cockerel in front is one of the NN/RR offspring. The cockerel behind him is a NN over a slow white broiler. At 13 1/2 weeks they dressed out at 4 1/2 lbs and 4 1/4 lbs respectively.

I've been very happy with these results, but I need to think about some fresh genetics, as I have exactly 1 NN rooster and 1 RR hen. I'm thinking I can breed one more generation before things get wonky. Then I need to thinking about saving one of the NN/RR cockerels, get some new red rangers when eggs become available, and save some of the hens. I'd love to find a way to keep the naked neck gene alive in a bird with some of the size of ranger.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Dwarf Gene in Production Lines.

I am trying to understand the genetics of both my layers sex links and the Cornishx I found... seems the broiler industry uses hens with the dwarf gene which is a Z chromosome gene (sex linked) and then cross a normal rooster with Dw/Dw genes on their two ZZ chromosomes... they do this because then the breeding hen is 30% smaller, requires less space and less feed... this sort of thing may not be limited to CornishX lines and I am wondering now about the other broiler hybrids and breeds as “lines” are used.

In addition I found a study indicating that hatcheries may start moving Laying lines of breeds and hybrids this way too using bantam x standard... for all the same reasons... they are starting to develop bantam lines of specific sizes that produce eggs the same amount as standard breeds to use in crossing to produce standard hybrid production breeds, or breed specific lines such as Leghorn. I think it is all still in the study phase but if it proves profitable I can see copyrighted lines of specific breeds that are then used to produce purebred standard size layers.

Anyway for figuring out what’s in your broilers, since the gene is sex linked the pullets of the broilers from the hatchery will not carry the dw gene but the cockerels will.... I know CornishX uses dwarf hens but not sure if they do this with other “breeds” but I think they may. So if you were to use a broiler rooster for breeding and there are chicks it sires that don’t really grow like the others, stay way smaller, then I am guessing those pullets would have the dwarf (dw) gene.

Anyway that is what I am understanding.

 

[Compost King]

Sounds like a time consuming project, I used to have a lot of those then I learned I can only have one and I can't even have that now until after I move to a bigger plot of land. I myself love Red Rangers and I loved crossing them with heritage birds to make some really good table birds.

my 2 cents on the dwarf gene... its irrelevant to me, if I am making meat birds the last thing I concern myself with is overall size. If Bigger really meant better the Broiler Industry would be dominated by Jersey Giants. If the result of breeding a CX means some of them end up at 70% of the size of the CX they will eat 30% less feed (I doubt the math is that simple but I keep my points simple) and what makes a great meat bird is how fast it puts on weight not how much weight it puts on at the end. For your breeding project, to make a sustainable breed I can see why it would matter to you.

 

[Compost King]

The Red Rangers I had and bred did not need their feed rationed, I kept their feeder full and they still foraged first then hit the feeder. I would hatch out their mixed offspring about the same time I bought CX and when I ration fed the CX the Half Red Rangers I had would take the lead on foraging and the CX I saved for breeding (failed BTW) would follow the half Red Ranger to the compost piles to forage. Eventually they too would forage first then eat the rationed feed I set out. I had Slow White broilers too but they all died too young to give any details. Not sure why they died but I got them at Tractor supply.

Other notes about Red Rangers, the hens laid eggs earlier than Heritage Breed or hybrid I have ever had, even sooner than the white leghorns I had. I can't remember exactly how long it was but it was June when they laid and the White Leghorns of the same age laid their first eggs in July. The Red laying hybrid (not sure which one in particular) started laying August. One of my Red Rangers laid an egg so big that when I put them in my egg turner I had to stagger them with Bantam eggs or they would not fit. My egg Turner supposedly can hold duck eggs so maybe one of my Red Rangers laid eggs bigger than a duck. The other Red Ranger eggs were quite large too. Probably not duck sized but I have yet to eggs from another breed as large.

I wish I had kept a Red Ranger male to breed then back to themselves but I only kept females and crossed them with various heritage roosters. I loved the results. Fairly large and still fairly young. the oldest I processed was 18 weeks and huge, I also processed them at 12 weeks and were still very meaty.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Can anyone recommend more good resources and websites like this one? Extension Service Poultry Genetics

You might fined this helpful. It's only about feather color/patterns but it can help you get a handle on how chicken genetics work. It is fairly simplistic as there are several nuances it does not cover but knowing the basics can help a lot.

Cross Calculator

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

Your link was an interesting read. It is also pretty simplistic but it's meant to be. A few comments. They highlight that some genes are dominant, some recessive, and some co-dominant. They mention another one later, the modifiers. Some genes only act if other genes or conditions are present. I'll use what I consider a mistake in their write-up to explain. The genetics experts I've read say there are only basic feather colors, black and red. White is not a basic color. White is produced by modifying ether a red or black feather. The Dominant White gene turns black feathers white. It does not have an effect on red feathers. The silver gene turns red feathers white, no effect on black feathers. Both these genes are dominant. The Recessive White gene turns every feather white, whether it starts out as red or black. But since it is recessive it has to pair up before it has any effect.

Their comb discussion brings up something else about modifiers. To clear up possible confusion the walnut and cushion comb are the same thing, there is a difference in their write-up and the drawings. The pea, rose, walnut, and single combs are purely due to the way the pea and rose combs combine or are absent. But they mention those other three. Those three are modifiers. What effect they will actually have will depend on whether they are modifying a pea, rose, walnut, or single comb. You can get a lot of different combs in appearance than just those seven. The reason I mention this is that this is true for a lot of things other than combs. There may be a few certain genes that affect a certain trait, but there are usually a lot of modifiers that can have an effect. That's why you can get so many different results even if you mate the same birds. So many of those gene pairs are heterozygous that you can get all kinds of combinations of recessive and dominant genes even in full siblings. That's something the cross calculator demonstrates in second generation crosses.

I'll emphasize something they said when talking about the sex-linked genes. A rooster gives a copy of one of the genes at each gene pair to all his offspring. A hen does the same thing for her boys, they get a copy of one gene from each of her gene pairs. Plus they get the sex-linked genes from her. The hen does not give the sex-linked genes to her daughters. The practical aspect of this is that the boys get an equal share of their genetics from both mother and father. But the girls get slightly more from their father than the mother. The sex-linked genes make it more confusing.

The rooster has as much or more genetic influence on the pullets than the mother. Size of egg, frequency of laying, how likely she is to go broody, any of that. The hen contributes as much as the rooster genetically toward the body configuration, when they mature, how big they get, and such toward the cockerels. But roosters don't lay eggs. Hens have different body shapes than roosters. It's generally suggested you look to the hens for egg laying qualities and to the roosters for butchering qualities because its easier to see.

Maybe this example will explain that. I once kept a rooster that hatched from an egg laid by a hen that often went broody. When that boy's daughters entered my flock the rate of broodiness in the flock increased dramatically due to that rooster's genetics.

Good luck, it can be a fun journey. But I find the more I learn the less I know. Every time I think I learn something I find out that there are exceptions. That's often due to those darn modifiers, they can really mess up a rule.

 

[Compost King]

I shared this in another thread, but I've been very pleased with crossing my Naked Neck rooster over a red ranger hen. I've incubated 8 of her eggs now. All fertile all hatched, all huge healthy chicks. She is over a year now and still looking pretty good, although she still lays an occasion soft shelled egg and struggles a bit in the hot weather. I've got a mister set up in the shade, and she isn't afraid to get wet, standing under it to keep cool. The cockerel in front is one of the NN/RR offspring. The cockerel behind him is a NN over a slow white broiler. At 13 1/2 weeks they dressed out at 4 1/2 lbs and 4 1/4 lbs respectively.

I've been very happy with these results, but I need to think about some fresh genetics, as I have exactly 1 NN rooster and 1 RR hen. I'm thinking I can breed one more generation before things get wonky. Then I need to thinking about saving one of the NN/RR cockerels, get some new red rangers when eggs become available, and save some of the hens. I'd love to find a way to keep the naked neck gene alive in a bird with some of the size of ranger.

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I found Naked Necks and Red Rangers to be a great combination. The Naked Neck I was breeding with was very calm and non aggressive and it offset the aggression in the Red Rangers I had. The meat was great and very easy to process due to less feathers. I skinned mine because the plucking process to me isn't worth the skin being saved. But even with skinning less feather makes it easier to peel that skin off.