Ranger breeding project

[zebradreams07]

I'm doing a meat-hybrid x layer-hybrid cross. I've been in doubt wether the meat-chickens around here is what most people would call a cornish-cross. Reading on weights here on BYC and general growth rates, I'm starting to think they were. I kept 2 roosters for breeding to my brahma's. Their sister (I wanted hens for the brahma roosters but ended up with boys) dropped dead at 4 months and that was a very wide and plumpy chicken, another reason why I think they actually were cornishX. And indeed, the bigger one of the 2 roosters didn't fertilize a single egg. I have since learned to watch my birds and can tell a capable rooster from a not so capable one.

Restricting feed. I didn't only limit the amount but also gave them nothing but mixed grains, which works out to be about 11 to 12% protein in the mix I bought. This to cover their caloric needs. I kept them hungry though and they foraged quite well for extra protein. Less protein means less growth and less meat, that's why bodybuilders crave protein so much. ;D
I did, however, still end up with big and heavy birds. The bigger one probably had too big a chest to do a proper 'deed'.

The reason I put layer eggs in with the brahma eggs was because I had the space in the incubator and to see if anything would hatch. All the layer eggs hatched and none of the brahma's did.

I'm happy with my cross so far, but I'm only at the beginning. My first F2 batch has matured and, except for one hen, they got eaten already. I had a couple more F2 batches that are growing now and the next generation is in the incubator.

Wether it's worth it or not, is another question. They do not grow nearly as fast and big as the cornishX, but the hens lay very well and very big (70 - 80 grams) eggs for now. The F2 hen I kept lays less and very small eggs (50 grams) compared to the F1 hens. I'm not using her for breeding and am hoping her younger sisters will do better when they start laying soon.
One reason I'm happy doing this is that chickens are harder and harder to come by. We used to have several weekly markets where you could buy whatever in small livestock. Those days are over. It was very easy going to market, buy 10 meat birds, grow them and start over again. It's an expedition now to find meat birds at times.

At least, if this goes well, I'll end up with a bird that grows reasonably fast, lays well and has a fair amount of meat on the bones. And one that I can sustain without being dependent on unreliable supply.
Why not go for an established dual-purpose breed? Well, I ended up here by coincidence so might as well have a look where the road leads to. Also, chickens have become very popular around here, everybody is breeding them and unfortunately this shows in the quality (no judgement here, the only way to learn is through hands-on practice). The price charged for bad quality breeders is another factor.
For instance, I've had genetic issues with my brahma's that took years to improve and sometimes still show up. Although I have strong, healthy and hardy brahma's now they are nowhere near the hardiness of the cross. And they grow so painfully slow compared to the cross.
Hopefully I can keep the good qualities in the cross while improving on the not so good ones.

Certainly sounds like Cornish X, but remember they're a proprietary hybrid from commercial hatcheries - local breeders would only have them if they're reselling. And F1 won't breed true even if both parents are Cornish X, so no one can just reproduce more.

I'm planning to mostly do Ranger x Ranger the first few generations for that reason, and try to select for their better traits and cull out what doesn't fit. But I'll probably end up hatching out some layer mutts too, and anything that looks promising could go in the program. If nothing else a ranger roo would hopefully add some growth over layer hens.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would use a Red Ranger male over the heritage breed, then only keep the females in the program because that will keep the Rapid Feathering trait. The Males from that crossing would have feathering rate of the mother. If one of them genetics experts corrects me I will gladly submit to their opinion I do not know genetics I only know my own experiences when breeding rapid feathering bird to not rapid feathering birds.

I did not know that Rangers were fast feathering. That would explain what you are seeing.

One sex-linked gene pair controls feathering rate. The slow-feathering gene is dominant over the fast-feathering gene. A hen gives her sex-linked genes to her boys, her girls get nothing from her. A rooster gives one of whatever he has to both boys and girls. So the girls get that gene from their fathers only.

If the hen has the slow feathering gene her boys get it. Since it is dominant that boy will be slow-feathering no matter what he gets from Dad. So the boys can wind up with either two slow feathering genes or one slow and one fast depending on what they get from Dad. It can get confusing if you use that boy in a breeding program, you can't tell by looking of he has one of each or both slow.

A pullet will only get what Dad has. If he is fast-feathering he has two recessive fast genes so the girls will have the fast gene. That's what you are seeing.

I don't know how accurate this chart is. It comes from a sex linked thread on here and is by a guy that is a true genetic expert so probably pretty accurate. It shows some fast feathering breeds and some slow feathering breeds. It's interesting to me that many of the dual purpose breeds we normally look at are slow-feathering. That doesn't totally make sense to me but talking chicken genetics that's not unusual.

Compost King, why is fast feathering important to you? I can think of two possible reasons. Fast feathering chicks will feather out faster so they can handle cooler weather earlier. Hens that are fast feathering will get over the molt faster and return to lay earlier.

If you breed a fast-feathering male over a slow feathering female you can tell the sex of the chicks at hatch by looking at the wing feathers.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Following - for long term. There's a few years left in me, barring accident, and I'm not planning on going anywhere. Considering a breeding program of my own, if only because I've just started my flock with what I could get at the local farm store (covid 19 essentially shut down all the local mom and pops), so I've got the mix ID'd below. There are traits I like in each of the breeds, and traits I absolutely hate.

Hoping my Cornish (already butterballs at 8 weeks) aren't CornishX (TSC's labels are hardly definitive), or that if they are, they survive to maturity as potential layers, will cull the kids, since its sort of genetic lottery at that point.

More interested in the Brahma and NHReds, the Comets are only to provide lots of eggs near term.

Need a dual purpose free ranger. I fan afford moderate rates of lay, moderate rates of growth, and moderate final weights - as long as they are hearty, not too stupid, and not too slow to grow as to loose any pretense at being worth the cost of feeding them.

 

[SnapdragonQ]

I'm going to come back and re-read this when I'm actually awake (more coffee) and can absorb what I'm reading, but I've started along a similar path. I've got Red Ranger types coming this week in the mail and have plans to raise them like normal chickens and mix them with a few different heritage breeds. It's early and I have no strong definable goals yet, but I've done CX plenty of times and while I love the big meaty birds I got, the feeling inside watching the poor frankenbirds not act like real chickens was a bit .....ugh.

 

[rascal66]

Yes very large.
What color is your EE rooster? Mines Black Birchen.

At the time, I had a light Brahma rooster over some EEs and other misc breeds.. Here is a pic of the cross!

 

[Parront]

Thats what Craigslist is for. You can even profit off of it if you sell them fast enough. If it takes too long you lose money in feed. Best to advertise them before they arrive. When I do this I either break even or take a small loss which is still better than paying a small order fee.

True. I ordered a box of 25 from Ideal last week and a very happy new owner just took 9 of them home today. I only asked for what they cost me, now everybody's happy! I just mentioned it on our local state thread, probably should have put them in the buy/sell section here, but I was just chatting and telling folks what I was doing. I would rather split with a fellow BYC'er than list on CL. My 9 extras are gone, brooder has more room, recouped some of the cost, she got birds without waiting until Sept. Win/Win.

 

[Torinik]

I'm doing a meat-hybrid x layer-hybrid cross. I've been in doubt wether the meat-chickens around here is what most people would call a cornish-cross. Reading on weights here on BYC and general growth rates, I'm starting to think they were. I kept 2 roosters for breeding to my brahma's. Their sister (I wanted hens for the brahma roosters but ended up with boys) dropped dead at 4 months and that was a very wide and plumpy chicken, another reason why I think they actually were cornishX. And indeed, the bigger one of the 2 roosters didn't fertilize a single egg. I have since learned to watch my birds and can tell a capable rooster from a not so capable one.

Restricting feed. I didn't only limit the amount but also gave them nothing but mixed grains, which works out to be about 11 to 12% protein in the mix I bought. This to cover their caloric needs. I kept them hungry though and they foraged quite well for extra protein. Less protein means less growth and less meat, that's why bodybuilders crave protein so much. ;D
I did, however, still end up with big and heavy birds. The bigger one probably had too big a chest to do a proper 'deed'.

The reason I put layer eggs in with the brahma eggs was because I had the space in the incubator and to see if anything would hatch. All the layer eggs hatched and none of the brahma's did.

I'm happy with my cross so far, but I'm only at the beginning. My first F2 batch has matured and, except for one hen, they got eaten already. I had a couple more F2 batches that are growing now and the next generation is in the incubator.

Wether it's worth it or not, is another question. They do not grow nearly as fast and big as the cornishX, but the hens lay very well and very big (70 - 80 grams) eggs for now. The F2 hen I kept lays less and very small eggs (50 grams) compared to the F1 hens. I'm not using her for breeding and am hoping her younger sisters will do better when they start laying soon.
One reason I'm happy doing this is that chickens are harder and harder to come by. We used to have several weekly markets where you could buy whatever in small livestock. Those days are over. It was very easy going to market, buy 10 meat birds, grow them and start over again. It's an expedition now to find meat birds at times.

At least, if this goes well, I'll end up with a bird that grows reasonably fast, lays well and has a fair amount of meat on the bones. And one that I can sustain without being dependent on unreliable supply.
Why not go for an established dual-purpose breed? Well, I ended up here by coincidence so might as well have a look where the road leads to. Also, chickens have become very popular around here, everybody is breeding them and unfortunately this shows in the quality (no judgement here, the only way to learn is through hands-on practice). The price charged for bad quality breeders is another factor.
For instance, I've had genetic issues with my brahma's that took years to improve and sometimes still show up. Although I have strong, healthy and hardy brahma's now they are nowhere near the hardiness of the cross. And they grow so painfully slow compared to the cross.
Hopefully I can keep the good qualities in the cross while improving on the not so good ones.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@Ridgerunner Thank you, that's a huge help. I've bookmarked for future reference, as well as one of the chick "calculators" I ran across yesterday. I did ok w/ genetics in school and thereafter (we have some significant life-affecting sex linked and recessive genes in my own family), but its been many decades since I had to use the language of it.

I saved this one Chicken Calculator

as to the "toads", its just my wife and I. That looks way too large to be cost effective to feed, even if it could free-range. and if its a very fast grower, too? No thank you.

Though I respect the efforts that resulted in that ?desired? outcome, if I want a bird that size for the holidays, I'll take one of the wild turkey in my back acres. thanks.

 

[rascal66]

I found a good meat bird cross. Easter Egger X Brahma.
Fast growing heavyweights.
View attachment 2189547View attachment 2189548They're about 3 months old.

I have some light brahma x EEs as well! They are larger than the average EE for sure.

 

[rascal66]

I have a dark Cornish I am trying over CX mixes...he is having issues mating... most of the eggs aren't fertilized.. I am just starting to incubate some

You know, of the two rangers I have, one is super heavy and meatier than the other, and I see him sometimes struggling with mating. He still does the deed often enough, but anything larger or heavier and he probably wouldn't be able to.