Ranger breeding project

[Ridgerunner]

I would use a Red Ranger male over the heritage breed, then only keep the females in the program because that will keep the Rapid Feathering trait. The Males from that crossing would have feathering rate of the mother. If one of them genetics experts corrects me I will gladly submit to their opinion I do not know genetics I only know my own experiences when breeding rapid feathering bird to not rapid feathering birds.

I did not know that Rangers were fast feathering. That would explain what you are seeing.

One sex-linked gene pair controls feathering rate. The slow-feathering gene is dominant over the fast-feathering gene. A hen gives her sex-linked genes to her boys, her girls get nothing from her. A rooster gives one of whatever he has to both boys and girls. So the girls get that gene from their fathers only.

If the hen has the slow feathering gene her boys get it. Since it is dominant that boy will be slow-feathering no matter what he gets from Dad. So the boys can wind up with either two slow feathering genes or one slow and one fast depending on what they get from Dad. It can get confusing if you use that boy in a breeding program, you can't tell by looking of he has one of each or both slow.

A pullet will only get what Dad has. If he is fast-feathering he has two recessive fast genes so the girls will have the fast gene. That's what you are seeing.

I don't know how accurate this chart is. It comes from a sex linked thread on here and is by a guy that is a true genetic expert so probably pretty accurate. It shows some fast feathering breeds and some slow feathering breeds. It's interesting to me that many of the dual purpose breeds we normally look at are slow-feathering. That doesn't totally make sense to me but talking chicken genetics that's not unusual.

Compost King, why is fast feathering important to you? I can think of two possible reasons. Fast feathering chicks will feather out faster so they can handle cooler weather earlier. Hens that are fast feathering will get over the molt faster and return to lay earlier.

If you breed a fast-feathering male over a slow feathering female you can tell the sex of the chicks at hatch by looking at the wing feathers.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Following - for long term. There's a few years left in me, barring accident, and I'm not planning on going anywhere. Considering a breeding program of my own, if only because I've just started my flock with what I could get at the local farm store (covid 19 essentially shut down all the local mom and pops), so I've got the mix ID'd below. There are traits I like in each of the breeds, and traits I absolutely hate.

Hoping my Cornish (already butterballs at 8 weeks) aren't CornishX (TSC's labels are hardly definitive), or that if they are, they survive to maturity as potential layers, will cull the kids, since its sort of genetic lottery at that point.

More interested in the Brahma and NHReds, the Comets are only to provide lots of eggs near term.

Need a dual purpose free ranger. I fan afford moderate rates of lay, moderate rates of growth, and moderate final weights - as long as they are hearty, not too stupid, and not too slow to grow as to loose any pretense at being worth the cost of feeding them.

 

[SnapdragonQ]

I'm going to come back and re-read this when I'm actually awake (more coffee) and can absorb what I'm reading, but I've started along a similar path. I've got Red Ranger types coming this week in the mail and have plans to raise them like normal chickens and mix them with a few different heritage breeds. It's early and I have no strong definable goals yet, but I've done CX plenty of times and while I love the big meaty birds I got, the feeling inside watching the poor frankenbirds not act like real chickens was a bit .....ugh.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Can anyone recommend more good resources and websites like this one? Extension Service Poultry Genetics

You might fined this helpful. It's only about feather color/patterns but it can help you get a handle on how chicken genetics work. It is fairly simplistic as there are several nuances it does not cover but knowing the basics can help a lot.

Cross Calculator

http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

Your link was an interesting read. It is also pretty simplistic but it's meant to be. A few comments. They highlight that some genes are dominant, some recessive, and some co-dominant. They mention another one later, the modifiers. Some genes only act if other genes or conditions are present. I'll use what I consider a mistake in their write-up to explain. The genetics experts I've read say there are only basic feather colors, black and red. White is not a basic color. White is produced by modifying ether a red or black feather. The Dominant White gene turns black feathers white. It does not have an effect on red feathers. The silver gene turns red feathers white, no effect on black feathers. Both these genes are dominant. The Recessive White gene turns every feather white, whether it starts out as red or black. But since it is recessive it has to pair up before it has any effect.

Their comb discussion brings up something else about modifiers. To clear up possible confusion the walnut and cushion comb are the same thing, there is a difference in their write-up and the drawings. The pea, rose, walnut, and single combs are purely due to the way the pea and rose combs combine or are absent. But they mention those other three. Those three are modifiers. What effect they will actually have will depend on whether they are modifying a pea, rose, walnut, or single comb. You can get a lot of different combs in appearance than just those seven. The reason I mention this is that this is true for a lot of things other than combs. There may be a few certain genes that affect a certain trait, but there are usually a lot of modifiers that can have an effect. That's why you can get so many different results even if you mate the same birds. So many of those gene pairs are heterozygous that you can get all kinds of combinations of recessive and dominant genes even in full siblings. That's something the cross calculator demonstrates in second generation crosses.

I'll emphasize something they said when talking about the sex-linked genes. A rooster gives a copy of one of the genes at each gene pair to all his offspring. A hen does the same thing for her boys, they get a copy of one gene from each of her gene pairs. Plus they get the sex-linked genes from her. The hen does not give the sex-linked genes to her daughters. The practical aspect of this is that the boys get an equal share of their genetics from both mother and father. But the girls get slightly more from their father than the mother. The sex-linked genes make it more confusing.

The rooster has as much or more genetic influence on the pullets than the mother. Size of egg, frequency of laying, how likely she is to go broody, any of that. The hen contributes as much as the rooster genetically toward the body configuration, when they mature, how big they get, and such toward the cockerels. But roosters don't lay eggs. Hens have different body shapes than roosters. It's generally suggested you look to the hens for egg laying qualities and to the roosters for butchering qualities because its easier to see.

Maybe this example will explain that. I once kept a rooster that hatched from an egg laid by a hen that often went broody. When that boy's daughters entered my flock the rate of broodiness in the flock increased dramatically due to that rooster's genetics.

Good luck, it can be a fun journey. But I find the more I learn the less I know. Every time I think I learn something I find out that there are exceptions. That's often due to those darn modifiers, they can really mess up a rule.

 

[rascal66]

Yes very large.
What color is your EE rooster? Mines Black Birchen.

At the time, I had a light Brahma rooster over some EEs and other misc breeds.. Here is a pic of the cross!

 

[Parront]

Thats what Craigslist is for. You can even profit off of it if you sell them fast enough. If it takes too long you lose money in feed. Best to advertise them before they arrive. When I do this I either break even or take a small loss which is still better than paying a small order fee.

True. I ordered a box of 25 from Ideal last week and a very happy new owner just took 9 of them home today. I only asked for what they cost me, now everybody's happy! I just mentioned it on our local state thread, probably should have put them in the buy/sell section here, but I was just chatting and telling folks what I was doing. I would rather split with a fellow BYC'er than list on CL. My 9 extras are gone, brooder has more room, recouped some of the cost, she got birds without waiting until Sept. Win/Win.

 

[Torinik]

I'm doing a meat-hybrid x layer-hybrid cross. I've been in doubt wether the meat-chickens around here is what most people would call a cornish-cross. Reading on weights here on BYC and general growth rates, I'm starting to think they were. I kept 2 roosters for breeding to my brahma's. Their sister (I wanted hens for the brahma roosters but ended up with boys) dropped dead at 4 months and that was a very wide and plumpy chicken, another reason why I think they actually were cornishX. And indeed, the bigger one of the 2 roosters didn't fertilize a single egg. I have since learned to watch my birds and can tell a capable rooster from a not so capable one.

Restricting feed. I didn't only limit the amount but also gave them nothing but mixed grains, which works out to be about 11 to 12% protein in the mix I bought. This to cover their caloric needs. I kept them hungry though and they foraged quite well for extra protein. Less protein means less growth and less meat, that's why bodybuilders crave protein so much. ;D
I did, however, still end up with big and heavy birds. The bigger one probably had too big a chest to do a proper 'deed'.

The reason I put layer eggs in with the brahma eggs was because I had the space in the incubator and to see if anything would hatch. All the layer eggs hatched and none of the brahma's did.

I'm happy with my cross so far, but I'm only at the beginning. My first F2 batch has matured and, except for one hen, they got eaten already. I had a couple more F2 batches that are growing now and the next generation is in the incubator.

Wether it's worth it or not, is another question. They do not grow nearly as fast and big as the cornishX, but the hens lay very well and very big (70 - 80 grams) eggs for now. The F2 hen I kept lays less and very small eggs (50 grams) compared to the F1 hens. I'm not using her for breeding and am hoping her younger sisters will do better when they start laying soon.
One reason I'm happy doing this is that chickens are harder and harder to come by. We used to have several weekly markets where you could buy whatever in small livestock. Those days are over. It was very easy going to market, buy 10 meat birds, grow them and start over again. It's an expedition now to find meat birds at times.

At least, if this goes well, I'll end up with a bird that grows reasonably fast, lays well and has a fair amount of meat on the bones. And one that I can sustain without being dependent on unreliable supply.
Why not go for an established dual-purpose breed? Well, I ended up here by coincidence so might as well have a look where the road leads to. Also, chickens have become very popular around here, everybody is breeding them and unfortunately this shows in the quality (no judgement here, the only way to learn is through hands-on practice). The price charged for bad quality breeders is another factor.
For instance, I've had genetic issues with my brahma's that took years to improve and sometimes still show up. Although I have strong, healthy and hardy brahma's now they are nowhere near the hardiness of the cross. And they grow so painfully slow compared to the cross.
Hopefully I can keep the good qualities in the cross while improving on the not so good ones.

 

[rascal66]

I found a good meat bird cross. Easter Egger X Brahma.
Fast growing heavyweights.
View attachment 2189547View attachment 2189548They're about 3 months old.

I have some light brahma x EEs as well! They are larger than the average EE for sure.

 

[rascal66]

I have a dark Cornish I am trying over CX mixes...he is having issues mating... most of the eggs aren't fertilized.. I am just starting to incubate some

You know, of the two rangers I have, one is super heavy and meatier than the other, and I see him sometimes struggling with mating. He still does the deed often enough, but anything larger or heavier and he probably wouldn't be able to.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Here's our rooster at 6 months of age. I have to recover the pictures I took of him this year.