its caused by an imbalance in the brain, not by anyone's choice. I still miss my Leonard even tho its been 11 years since he died, I'll never forget him. Nathan hates to take meds for his because most of them turn him into a zombie, but he's found that Ativan works well.
Rant about DH...
- Thread starter Frosty
- Start date
Quote:
I totally agree. Tough love.
I totally agree. Tough love.
I don't know much about drugs but It is great to hear you say you are not depressed and don't let anyone tell you different.
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- Jul 3, 2009
- 1,028
- 8
- 161
I have read through a lot of the posts, but certainly not all. I just wanted to say that 1990 was quite awhile ago. You have certainly paid your dues. I honestly believe that although support from significant others (friends and family, not only spouses) is important, the responsibility lies with the person. If you don't like where you are you have to TAKE STEPS to change things. Some will be effective and some not. But the person in question has to GO to therapy, has to TAKE the medication, has to DO the exercise, has to get OFF his/her butt. If s/he wants to or not. I just don't ever want the OP to feel as though it is her responsibility to pull her husband out of the abyss into which he has fallen. She can reach out and grab his hand but HE has to pull himself up. Again.... 1990 was quite awhile ago. I am not seeing any sustained effort on his part.
I have found in life, that in general, people do what they want to do. If I say I want to exercise, but I don't... I really don't want to. I can make all sorts of excuses, not enough time, don't feel good enough... We all have the same amt of time. We choose how to allocate our minutes. Lord knows if I spent the amt of time exercising that I do on BYC I'd be a triathelete.
Tramadol is prescribed pretty regularly, but like so many other drugs, is not harmless and is definitely psychoactive. Go to webmd or another reputable site. I think you have cause to be at least cautious. But maybe he should be looking into this? Welsummer chicks makes a good point, the internet can scare the he** out of you. But it is also a good source of information. I have had a lot of patients who have been told that xyz medication could never have caused abc by their health care practitioners. But it did.
I have found in life, that in general, people do what they want to do. If I say I want to exercise, but I don't... I really don't want to. I can make all sorts of excuses, not enough time, don't feel good enough... We all have the same amt of time. We choose how to allocate our minutes. Lord knows if I spent the amt of time exercising that I do on BYC I'd be a triathelete.
Tramadol is prescribed pretty regularly, but like so many other drugs, is not harmless and is definitely psychoactive. Go to webmd or another reputable site. I think you have cause to be at least cautious. But maybe he should be looking into this? Welsummer chicks makes a good point, the internet can scare the he** out of you. But it is also a good source of information. I have had a lot of patients who have been told that xyz medication could never have caused abc by their health care practitioners. But it did.
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
- 4
- 171
I didn't insist Frosty was depressed - I advised caution to others, that others may be in denial about depression.
In general, it is simply not something most people are good at detecting in themselves. It tends to come along slowly and it tends to sneak up on people. To make matters worse, many people aren't 'typical'. When depressed, they more seem anxious, irritable or tense. Some people simply feel 'numb' and 'dulled' rather than unhappy. Many are convinced 'it's the situation, not me'. If they are depressed, it suggests the difficult situation they're in is at least in part their fault - something that seems monstrously unfair.
I did crisis intervention for a while, and I saw a good many people who were dragging themselves through every single day - some for years. They were barely surviving. I see these people differently from how most people do. I see them like I see someone crawling along the floor with two broken legs, trying to reach for a way out. I see them as incredibly valiant people, but when depression is what's dragging them down and knocking their legs out from under them - This is something treatable. They don't have to drag through life like this.
I've received a number of PM's/emails at this point indicating that this board in particular, has a good many people who have very set and problematic views toward mental health. Some of the messages are from people who have relatives with mental health issues, but not all are. But in general the message is that people tend to be very judgemental until they experience some of these problems up close and personal.
That's not always the case, of course. Some of the angriest people I've ever met are those who have a sibling or parent with mental illness. They often are disgusted after decades of upheaval in their life. Their reaction when someone else talks of family mental problems is, 'Throw the bum out!'
The point being made was the same in all the messages, that some people - very vocal people it seems, treat mental illness as if it is as purely a choice - the result of laziness, a lack of motivation, etc, is the problem. If they don't seek out and sustain help, they're not deserving of any support - kick 'em to the curb.
We tend to lump an awful lot of things together - mental illness (which is really neurological disease), problems of daily living, and addiction.
In fact, though, each issue represents very different problems, as well as very different solutions.
Mental illness is very, very persistent. On the surface, the behavior sounds deceptively familiar - why anyone can get excitable, or downhearted and dejected. What's the big deal? What sets mental illness apart from 'normal behavior' is the extremeness of the behavior and the rigidity with which the behavior occurs. It's pretty tough to relate to a parent who worridly says, 'My kid had a temper tantrum'. ALL kids have tantrums, right? Well, what if the kid is 17, and he has a temper tantrum that last 16 hours and involves scratching deep gouges in his own face, because the sun came through his window? Not all tantrums are created equal! We have to understand the extremeness of the behavior and how rigid it is.
It is often a lifelong problem, either constantly or in repeated episodes - these episodes might happen during stressful life changes, or they may simple happen for what seems to be very minor or no reason at all. It generally does NOT respond to 'personal efforts' like 'pull yourself up by your own bootstraps', or 'try to be stronger'. The person continues to behave in ways that are very damaging to him as well as those around him, despite abundant evidence that the behavior is dangerous. And the disease itself causes changes in the brain that make it very, very unlikely the person will stick with treatment. Being mentally ill tends to, in and of itself, interfere with the person sticking with treatment. Being suspicious, disorganized, forgetful, all these interfere with sticking to help. The sicker the person is, the harder it is to keep them in treatment, and the more irrational their decisions. And lectures don't solve the disorganized-ness or the irrational-ness. Because it's due to a fault in how the brain is functioning - not a choice.
Addiction - probably the commonest and most frustrating problem there is. Almost every one of us knows someone with an addiction problem. Why some people can stick with a program and stay away from the addictive substance, and why some people simply do not seem to stick with help - one of the commonest and most frustrating experiences with addictions. Some will tell you addiction is a choice that they licked and got under control, others, that it's a disease and the person 'can't help themselves'. Is that acceptance or simply enabling? Depends on who's talkin'.
In general, we have very little sympathy for addictions. That person puts that drink to his lips and swallows it. Suggestions that it's a disease are often met with fury and it's viewed as an excuse for making a choice - we are sure there is a very strong element of choice. And to boot, many of us have watched addictions destroy lives - our lives, other lives. Most of us know someone who's been killed by a drunk driver, and most of us know someone who just...won't...stop.
In a way, 'problems of daily living' are no less difficult to deal with. First of all, they're very common, no one has avoided problems of daily living or the effects of someone dealing with them poorly. These also tend to be very persistent, but there is no 'disease' to blame. It can be incomprehensible why some people continue to lose their temper, alienate others, or behave in socially unacceptable ways - for decades. Why don't people change? Why don't they make more effort? Why don't they get on the stick and make some changes?
What I urge is an open mind. If someone seems to be destroying themselves and those around them, and refuses help, perhaps there is something goin' on there. I urge you to keep an open mind when you see family and friends making inexplicable mistakes again and again. Maybe that person needs to 'get toughened up'. Or perhaps there is something more going on inside that person. Keep an open mind, and be willing to consider that this may be a different kettle of fish.
While it's quite true that one cannot force help of any kind on an adult - that's just the legal reality of the situation. Any adult is free to refuse treatment of any type - even when they clearly need it. Sure. But in all cases, there are steps that can be taken to get a person into help, no matter how strenuously they resist help.
The question is not 'do they deserve help'. Every human being is a creature of God and deserves help. The question is how do we get them the help and who is the best equipped to provide the help?
Whether a disease makes a person unattractive, annoying or difficult, all human beings remain what they were when they were born - creatures of God. The measure of each and every one of us - the measure of our society - is not how we care for the greatest of us, the most attractive and admirable, but how we extend our ministry to the least of us.
In general, it is simply not something most people are good at detecting in themselves. It tends to come along slowly and it tends to sneak up on people. To make matters worse, many people aren't 'typical'. When depressed, they more seem anxious, irritable or tense. Some people simply feel 'numb' and 'dulled' rather than unhappy. Many are convinced 'it's the situation, not me'. If they are depressed, it suggests the difficult situation they're in is at least in part their fault - something that seems monstrously unfair.
I did crisis intervention for a while, and I saw a good many people who were dragging themselves through every single day - some for years. They were barely surviving. I see these people differently from how most people do. I see them like I see someone crawling along the floor with two broken legs, trying to reach for a way out. I see them as incredibly valiant people, but when depression is what's dragging them down and knocking their legs out from under them - This is something treatable. They don't have to drag through life like this.
I've received a number of PM's/emails at this point indicating that this board in particular, has a good many people who have very set and problematic views toward mental health. Some of the messages are from people who have relatives with mental health issues, but not all are. But in general the message is that people tend to be very judgemental until they experience some of these problems up close and personal.
That's not always the case, of course. Some of the angriest people I've ever met are those who have a sibling or parent with mental illness. They often are disgusted after decades of upheaval in their life. Their reaction when someone else talks of family mental problems is, 'Throw the bum out!'
The point being made was the same in all the messages, that some people - very vocal people it seems, treat mental illness as if it is as purely a choice - the result of laziness, a lack of motivation, etc, is the problem. If they don't seek out and sustain help, they're not deserving of any support - kick 'em to the curb.
We tend to lump an awful lot of things together - mental illness (which is really neurological disease), problems of daily living, and addiction.
In fact, though, each issue represents very different problems, as well as very different solutions.
Mental illness is very, very persistent. On the surface, the behavior sounds deceptively familiar - why anyone can get excitable, or downhearted and dejected. What's the big deal? What sets mental illness apart from 'normal behavior' is the extremeness of the behavior and the rigidity with which the behavior occurs. It's pretty tough to relate to a parent who worridly says, 'My kid had a temper tantrum'. ALL kids have tantrums, right? Well, what if the kid is 17, and he has a temper tantrum that last 16 hours and involves scratching deep gouges in his own face, because the sun came through his window? Not all tantrums are created equal! We have to understand the extremeness of the behavior and how rigid it is.
It is often a lifelong problem, either constantly or in repeated episodes - these episodes might happen during stressful life changes, or they may simple happen for what seems to be very minor or no reason at all. It generally does NOT respond to 'personal efforts' like 'pull yourself up by your own bootstraps', or 'try to be stronger'. The person continues to behave in ways that are very damaging to him as well as those around him, despite abundant evidence that the behavior is dangerous. And the disease itself causes changes in the brain that make it very, very unlikely the person will stick with treatment. Being mentally ill tends to, in and of itself, interfere with the person sticking with treatment. Being suspicious, disorganized, forgetful, all these interfere with sticking to help. The sicker the person is, the harder it is to keep them in treatment, and the more irrational their decisions. And lectures don't solve the disorganized-ness or the irrational-ness. Because it's due to a fault in how the brain is functioning - not a choice.
Addiction - probably the commonest and most frustrating problem there is. Almost every one of us knows someone with an addiction problem. Why some people can stick with a program and stay away from the addictive substance, and why some people simply do not seem to stick with help - one of the commonest and most frustrating experiences with addictions. Some will tell you addiction is a choice that they licked and got under control, others, that it's a disease and the person 'can't help themselves'. Is that acceptance or simply enabling? Depends on who's talkin'.
In general, we have very little sympathy for addictions. That person puts that drink to his lips and swallows it. Suggestions that it's a disease are often met with fury and it's viewed as an excuse for making a choice - we are sure there is a very strong element of choice. And to boot, many of us have watched addictions destroy lives - our lives, other lives. Most of us know someone who's been killed by a drunk driver, and most of us know someone who just...won't...stop.
In a way, 'problems of daily living' are no less difficult to deal with. First of all, they're very common, no one has avoided problems of daily living or the effects of someone dealing with them poorly. These also tend to be very persistent, but there is no 'disease' to blame. It can be incomprehensible why some people continue to lose their temper, alienate others, or behave in socially unacceptable ways - for decades. Why don't people change? Why don't they make more effort? Why don't they get on the stick and make some changes?
What I urge is an open mind. If someone seems to be destroying themselves and those around them, and refuses help, perhaps there is something goin' on there. I urge you to keep an open mind when you see family and friends making inexplicable mistakes again and again. Maybe that person needs to 'get toughened up'. Or perhaps there is something more going on inside that person. Keep an open mind, and be willing to consider that this may be a different kettle of fish.
While it's quite true that one cannot force help of any kind on an adult - that's just the legal reality of the situation. Any adult is free to refuse treatment of any type - even when they clearly need it. Sure. But in all cases, there are steps that can be taken to get a person into help, no matter how strenuously they resist help.
The question is not 'do they deserve help'. Every human being is a creature of God and deserves help. The question is how do we get them the help and who is the best equipped to provide the help?
Whether a disease makes a person unattractive, annoying or difficult, all human beings remain what they were when they were born - creatures of God. The measure of each and every one of us - the measure of our society - is not how we care for the greatest of us, the most attractive and admirable, but how we extend our ministry to the least of us.
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and life experiences...
Everyone...
Dont ever think that yours is the ONE thats 100% correct...
Because one thing i CAN guarantee you is..its not.
Just my opinion, as usual..
Everyone...
Dont ever think that yours is the ONE thats 100% correct...
Because one thing i CAN guarantee you is..its not.
Just my opinion, as usual..
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I've just read the thread and I'm very sorry you've had to go through this. 20 years is a really long time. Seems to me like the best option would be to get out. Maybe not the easiest one, or the right one. But the best for you to get a piece of mind. Other than that, like you yourself suggested, couple therapy could work, but only if he is willing to change. Depression is like a demon. It just comes around and messes everything up. Up until the past month, I have had to deal with my mom's depression for the past 11 or so years. It's been very much the way you described. I have had to take care of her and my brother because she's too sad to clean, or to cook, or to get the remote even though it's within her reaching distance. I am very mentally disturbed from the way things went on, and moving was the best thing I've ever done. It feels so great not to have to hear her call my name every 10 minutes because she wants a snack or a glass of water. And to know that when I'm working again I won't be guilt tripped if I spend my hard earned money on things I want (she has no concept of earning money, been on disability since I was born.) My brother will never help her the way I did (he's the baby, good kid but spoiled and selfish.) so I'm hoping now that I'm gone she'll be more active in getting better. She has also been in therapy all this time, and I believe her therapist just enables her. Anyway, my point with all of this is that sometimes making a clean break can help. Then there are other times, when people really want to change and they do, as happened with my cousin and her girlfriend. My cousin was kind of crazy, and the way she acted was driving her girlfriend away. She saw this, and her love for herself and her girlfriend was enough to make her become a better person, despite the crap sandwich of a life she was handed. Sometimes it takes time, but then you have to think about how much more time you're willing to let it go on. I'm not really good at describing my thoughts, but I hope this helps and I wish you well. I'm new here, but you sound like a very strong and good person.
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
- 4
- 171
Without treatment, it is quite possible that she actually IS that tired. Depression can affect a lot of basic functions like energy, eating, sleeping.
But...what does one do about it, especially when someone won't get help, or 'self medicates' with alcohol or prescription drugs? Sure, they call it 'self medication' because it is some sort of effort to feel better, it's just the wrong way to help oneself.
I think the best thing one can do is try to get some professional help involved.
I guess I liken it to my SO who took care of his invalid father with a heart problem. He ruined his back lifting his dad for two years, and his dad also didn't get any better. In fact he didn't last long at all. Now most likely if a professional had been lifting him, they know how to lift people while protecting their back - and they also rotate so no one person is lifting, AND if a person is heavy they are supposed to use a lift, not just strain over and over to lift them. Also, a nurse might have spotted when he was getting worse, that's not my SO's fault, he hasn't got that training, and Dad also did not want anyone coming in to help, he would not accept it.
I think of having to/trying to care for someone who's this mentally sick oneself, as the same as trying to lift and care for a heavy person who is physically sick. We just aren't trained to do it, we need professional help.
BUT HOW TO GET THEM TO ACCEPT THAT!!! Try first of all, reading 'I'm Not Sick and I Don't Need Help', by Amadour. There is information about how to get someone to accept help.
There are no easy quick solutions, but I hope that at least some of us can get professionals involved - social workers are available for free from the county, and Adult Protective Services and other agencies can help get the ball rolling.
I've often felt really overwhelmed trying to deal with someone with profound mental problems, so I am sure other people feel the same. The key is that help is there.
But...what does one do about it, especially when someone won't get help, or 'self medicates' with alcohol or prescription drugs? Sure, they call it 'self medication' because it is some sort of effort to feel better, it's just the wrong way to help oneself.
I think the best thing one can do is try to get some professional help involved.
I guess I liken it to my SO who took care of his invalid father with a heart problem. He ruined his back lifting his dad for two years, and his dad also didn't get any better. In fact he didn't last long at all. Now most likely if a professional had been lifting him, they know how to lift people while protecting their back - and they also rotate so no one person is lifting, AND if a person is heavy they are supposed to use a lift, not just strain over and over to lift them. Also, a nurse might have spotted when he was getting worse, that's not my SO's fault, he hasn't got that training, and Dad also did not want anyone coming in to help, he would not accept it.
I think of having to/trying to care for someone who's this mentally sick oneself, as the same as trying to lift and care for a heavy person who is physically sick. We just aren't trained to do it, we need professional help.
BUT HOW TO GET THEM TO ACCEPT THAT!!! Try first of all, reading 'I'm Not Sick and I Don't Need Help', by Amadour. There is information about how to get someone to accept help.
There are no easy quick solutions, but I hope that at least some of us can get professionals involved - social workers are available for free from the county, and Adult Protective Services and other agencies can help get the ball rolling.
I've often felt really overwhelmed trying to deal with someone with profound mental problems, so I am sure other people feel the same. The key is that help is there.
I agree with almost all you said until you got to the part about the government helping. They are the worst at prolonging any illness and eventually you will owe them the farm. I would turn to a good church for therapy and help at least they are in it to help your soul and enjoy volunteering.
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