Rare chicken breeds desired for their meat qualities?

[gjensen]

Since this thread is titled "Rare Chicken Breeds" It is very apparent to me after searching the internet and making tons of phone calls,the true Large Fowl White Cornish should be on the almost extinct list. I've located and spoken to just about everyone that is listed on the internet as well as other leads given to me on the phone. Three of these breeders,one in Va,one in Kansas and the other in Cali all have birds from the same breeder lines going back to 80 yeears ago. There is little,if any genetic diversity within this one color or cornish.

Which brings up another point. If companies like Tyson,who supposedly bought out the breeding rights of the now famed cornish x-bred, Large Fowl white cornsih WAS used in that geetic package. Perdue is another marketer of cornish cross broilers. But wouldn't these companies have white cornish birds still pure to use in getting their cornish x-breds? I just put in a call to the head feed nutritionalist of Hubbard Feeds to see if he knows. I'm next going to place a call the Nutrena's feed guru. Somewhere,someone has got to be sitting on this color and breed.

I think there are a few more around than you have found. Not to mention that they are dominant white and could be used on a Dark Cornish to make a new flock. They are not common, but they are not at deaths door either.

You bring up a good point though. A lot (not all) of the breeds mentioned here are not rare in their country of origin, and many of the breeds we already have are becoming more and more rare. The perception of rare is interesting to say the least. I guess rare means new to us.

It is a bit ironic that newcomers that are interested in the production of fowl meat, are not interested in the Cornish.

The Cornish X or what we call Cornish X are not a simple cross of Cornish X Rock. They are the result of specialized meat strains that have Cornish in their background. The Broiler industry started with Cornish x NH, and the Cornish x Rock. The name and perception stuck. Cornish is in these strains, but it isn't as we often describe it.

 

[gjensen]

Luckily I don't have to worry too much about cold weather here in the desert SW. We've had a few chilly days, but none that have been really, really cold. I noticed they seem to eat more on those days but otherwise don't seem to have a problem with the temperature swings, which typically vary by roughly 30-40 degrees in a day between earliest morning and late afternoon. And I'm really hoping that with less feathering they'll fair well in our summer heat. I'll still be providing lots of shade, cold fresh water, and possible even misters.

I was not implying anything about their cold tolerance. Only that when they are young and growing the more energy they devote to staying warm, the less they are devoting to growing.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

gjensen,I fully understand the cornish x-bred is a cross of 4 diffrent varieties and white cornish is one of the 4 used. Yes they are out there but many backyard breeders only has a few birds and cannot,or will not sell anything. One breeder in Va that I spoke with just lost 1/2 his flock to a racoon in about 2 hours time,he now has 17 birds left and has a waiting list he don't think he can fill. He says he oversold waay too many birds last year and because this has happened,he is rather concerned to with the low numbers of true white cornish available.

I think my best option is to seek out actual hatcheries that offer the cornish x-bred chicks. They must have some to use somewhere? The one breeder in Kansas does not ship,and it's a 10 hr drive for me one way,,,which is looking like my only option if I'm to get these birds this spring. But his lines are the same as everyone elses so finding new blood to mix with them is still an issue.Yes they are out there but to find a breeder that has 100% pure whites with no other breed mixed is very,very tough. Try searching "Large Fowl White Cornish" and the links that comes up are hatcheries,or breeders that no longer raises them.

The x-bred was developed for commercial operations. Fast growth,low feed consumption = quick $. Since a true Cornish bird is a forager I don't care if it takes 35 weeks to be fully grown.Birds in a commercial growing operation never see daylite and kept on cages thus the reasoning behind their breeding goals. Mine are diffrent. You cannot build a great flock from poor breeding stock. The search continues.

 

[gjensen]

gjensen,I fully understand the cornish x-bred is a cross of 4 diffrent varieties and white cornish is one of the 4 used. Yes they are out there but many backyard breeders only has a few birds and cannot,or will not sell anything. One breeder in Va that I spoke with just lost 1/2 his flock to a racoon in about 2 hours time,he now has 17 birds left and has a waiting list he don't think he can fill. He says he oversold waay too many birds last year and because this has happened,he is rather concerned to with the low numbers of true white cornish available.

I think my best option is to seek out actual hatcheries that offer the cornish x-bred chicks. They must have some to use somewhere? The one breeder in Kansas does not ship,and it's a 10 hr drive for me one way,,,which is looking like my only option if I'm to get these birds this spring. But his lines are the same as everyone elses so finding new blood to mix with them is still an issue.Yes they are out there but to find a breeder that has 100% pure whites with no other breed mixed is very,very tough. Try searching "Large Fowl White Cornish" and the links that comes up are hatcheries,or breeders that no longer raises them.

The x-bred was developed for commercial operations. Fast growth,low feed consumption = quick $. Since a true Cornish bird is a forager I don't care if it takes 35 weeks to be fully grown.Birds in a commercial growing operation never see daylite and kept on cages thus the reasoning behind their breeding goals. Mine are diffrent. You cannot build a great flock from poor breeding stock. The search continues.

You can take me seriously or not. That is your choice. I tried to share with you that there is more out there than you are describing. I know. If you want to find some good ones you can. Heck, all you need is a trio of good whites and a trio of good darks, if that made it easier. That is not crossing breeds, that is crossing color varieties. Dominant white is dominant.

The internet is a good place to start looking, but it is not the best place to look. Go to a couple shows and ask around. Post a query on Showbird's wanted section. Look through the Poultry Press. Look through the APA yearbook. Look in the SPPA breeder' s directory. I could go on.
Very few actual breeders advertise online. Most would not want the hassle of the newbies. They are not businesses and do not subject themselves to people that expect them to operate like one. I do not sell birds. It is not worth the hassle to me.

Most of the hatcheries sell hatchery quality Cornish. If I was wanting to start with them, I would want to cross a Standard bred line with some hatchery Cornish anyways. They lose their athleticism when bred too large. That is just an opinion. I do not prefer either extreme. I like them in between.

You are right. Some Universities have them, and the commercial guys. They are not available to the public though.

The crossed commercial strains are not pure breeds. They are developed specialized strains. It is misleading to call them Cornish crosses anymore. They were originally.

If I wanted to start a flock of Cornish, I would have my start by fall. You can to. I was not trying to be critical. I was trying to be helpful. I have went through the merry go round of rare breed searching. I got a start in Catalanas, and there is much less of them. I did not find them on the internet.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

I have spoken to the head of the Cornish breed association,,several of the breeders within that organisation that do breed large whites,,I have spoken to two feed nutritionalist,,one from Nutrena and the other from Hubbard,,and I have spoken to a few breeders that has given me names of others they thought may have them. I will find them and maybe I should have got them last fall but I was looking at that time.

I'm realistic and know any chicks I get this year will not produce eggs until next spring. I do plan to put in a call to the U of I today and see what anyone there knows.Please remember I do have a job and cannot always afford the spare time to go to shows,ect,especially those far away. Ihave looked at many show results and a lot of them never had cornish large fowl entries.Hatchery birds is not an option. My Black Langshans came from one of the best breeders of them,Harvey Knoll,,my blr Wyandottes came from direct German Import lines from Karhy in Missouri,who is here on BYC,.

Maybe my standards are high but not impossible to reach. I have spoken to some of the largest sellers of poultry-fowl that I know,Greenfire Farms and Leggs Peafowl with no luck. I guess I'm exploring every avenue possible thru phone calls and internet information. I've spoken to many of the people I know from the Peafowl section here as well,,(where I spend most of my time here at BYC) and I've had several PM's sent to me giving me leads to try. I may have located 3 seperate flocks down south and I'm hoping the bloodlines aren't all the same. The search continues but as I said previously,this breed and color in Large Fowl are very,very low in numbers.

 

[Our Roost]

frenchblackcopper,

Most recently in Michigan, a battle erupted between local agricultural farmers and the state legislators over chicken farming urbanly being
pushed out. Topics related to the cornish x world wide grocery store breed arose and its decline as a food source in todays chicken meat supplier. I found that the FDA (Food and drug administration) was highly involved. It seems they are also searching for true strains to assist Michigan commercial chicken growers to keep this vital bird thriving. I dont know what conclusions have been made but I just thought to let you know this is not a small subject. Its a world wide concern. The breed has been used and abused beyond its means and is struggling in more ways than one can imagine with its steady downword decline. IMO I think in the not far off future, you will see another bird emerge to replace it. I wish you luck in your efforts to find some decent stock.

 

[frenchblackcopper]

Our Roost,,today at work has been slow and afforded me the time to make some phone calls.I have made considerable progress on locating these birds.Maybe unconventional sources but they are all pure lines. I'm waiting for two calls back and one lead says they have two distinct and seperate lines.Not knowing the best breeders from years gone by I do know a man who is very familiar with them from decades ago.Knowing the distinct characteristics of each seperate "strain" or breeding line may prove invaluable once I know the lineage of the ones who has them.As popular as this breed once was I'm sure the process I've found to locate them should prove invaluable to others wanting them. And I do know several that are.

 

[Our Roost]

Going way back to the depression years, my grandfother and family raised white cornish birds and the taste of fried chicken on Sundays was outstanding. Pancake, flour, milk and egg batter. Delish! Stewed tomatoes and garden fresh green beans was always a special side dish treat. I am struggling raising belgian malines currently as at one time they were also a very tasty meat bird of size. Very popular in french restaurants in europe and abroad near and before the end of ww2. A rare disease killed most of them off and its been a difficult journey to regain them in numbers and without having stressed inbreeding issues. I wish you as much sucess as I do myself. I think I recenty heard tell of a Canadian breeder who is trying to crooss the white cornish with the malines as a project bird. I wish him much sucess also. We could all use something good to come of this. Good luck!

 

[Shellz]

Going way back to the depression years, my grandfother and family raised white cornish birds and the taste of fried chicken on Sundays was outstanding. Pancake, flour, milk and egg batter. Delish! Stewed tomatoes and garden fresh green beans was always a special side dish treat. I am struggling raising belgian malines currently as at one time they were also a very tasty meat bird of size. Very popular in french restaurants in europe and abroad near and before the end of ww2. A rare disease killed most of them off and its been a difficult journey to regain them in numbers and without having stressed inbreeding issues. I wish you as much sucess as I do myself. I think I recenty heard tell of a Canadian breeder who is trying to crooss the white cornish with the malines as a project bird. I wish him much sucess also. We could all use something good to come of this. Good luck!

There are a couple of people crossing with standard Dark Cornish, actually.

Others are getting interested & seeking standard Dark Cornish hens as well for their own birds. I believe there is a standard white cornish breeder in Ontario, Canada, but I know nothing of his birds. He can be found on PSO forum. (Poultry Swap Ontario). There is a breeder listing section there under Cornish. Don't know if this would help you frenchblackcopper, but there you go!

 

[Our Roost]

Sorry Shellz, I thought it was white cornish they were using. Anyhow I wish him good fortune in finding a quality strain.