Really skinny flock

[Amer]

It’s been several days since I’ve started feeding copious amounts of food. Some are gaining weight very well. A couple feel nice and filled out. Some are still thin and some are still down bones. But it does correlate to their place in the pecking order. I’m separating out the thinnest ones and treating them with corid just to be sure. I’ll have feed constantly available to them. Still no one seems lethargic or sick, just thin.

Sounds good.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

As was said, molting birds look very small compared to themselves when fully feathered.
When discussing skinny birds, I think it is important to remember the difference between meaty and fat and how they relate to thin birds. Often. when breasts are thin, people want to put weight on. Breast meat is muscle with almost no fat. Fat is carried in the abdomen, around organs and under skin. Fat hens don't lay well. Muscle can't be made from carbohydrates, fats, vitamins or minerals - it takes amino acids. Like building a brick wall, protein is the bricks, vitamins and minerals are the mortar making muscle. High crude protein isn't necessarily the answer but a good array of essential amino acids. One needs to understand the concept of 'limiting amino acids' or just feed a complete feed formulated for the age and species they are feeding.
Fruits and vegetables contain little to no protein. Vegetative protein sources like grains and legumes are both deficient in some essential amino acids. Vegetarian feeds have the missing amino acids added as synthetic AAs like lysine and methionine in order to provide what birds need. It takes animal proteins to provide all the essential amino acids from one source. So when there is a problem developing muscle and or feathers, think about that.
Parasites can be and often are the reason for thin birds with little breast meat. They live in the intestine and skim off the protein in feed before the birds can utilize it.
To control parasites, it is important to know which parasite, so the first course of action is to get a fecal sample read to know your enemy so you can apply the best remedy.
It doesn't help using an anthelmintic for large roundworms if your birds don't have large roundworms.
Without knowing what you are dealing with, you are wasting your time and money.

try giving them some apple chunks,peas,corn,rasberries,bannanas,any kind of fruit /vegetables that theiy can have.it can help give them the nutrients that they need and also just give them free range choices,alfalfa and chicken feed without the added stuff for a while.

It’s been several days since I’ve started feeding copious amounts of food. Some are gaining weight very well. A couple feel nice and filled out. Some are still thin and some are still down bones. But it does correlate to their place in the pecking order. I’m separating out the thinnest ones and treating them with corid just to be sure. I’ll have feed constantly available to them. Still no one seems lethargic or sick, just thin.

It is hard to imagine adult birds that have grown up on the same piece of property needing Corid unless something else is going on to dramatically lower disease resistance. They have long since developed resistance to the species of coccidia present on the property.

Again, speaking of protein and nutrition in general, chickens, ducks, geese, turkeys and other game birds have unique nutritional requirements. Those requirements are genetic and based on how they have eaten in the wild for millions of years. They really aren't interchangeable in the barnyard. While it is possible to take a one size fits all approach for feeding, optimal results can't be obtained unless one houses the disparate species and ages separately.
In general, chickens need much less protein than gamebirds. and chicks, poults and ducklings need much more protein than adults.
Insects make up the bulk of the diet of gamebirds in the first few weeks of life, while adults diet is about 80% seeds and grains, then during breeding season, adults transition to a higher percentage of insects. That means poults, quail and pheasant chicks have much different dietary needs than their adult counterparts.
The same holds generally for waterfowl.
That's why gamebird feeds for growing birds is 28-30% protein and gamebird maintenance feed is about 12-13% protein.
Chicken chicks, on the other hand, really shouldn't have feed outside the range of from 18-22% and maturing birds need much less protein. Protein in excess of what they can utilize for growth and body maintenance needs to be processed by the liver, is wasted in the feces, turns to ammonia in the bedding and can lead to visceral gout.

 

[rebrascora]

Not just but really excellent post by @ChickenCanoe above!

 

[casportpony]

Lots of wormers mentioned in this thread so I thought I should comment on them. Note that I am not suggesting de-worming and I too think getting rountine fecals is a very good idea.

Wazine Treats large roundworms only. It is not approved for laying hen in the US, but *is* approved for laying hens in Canada.

Ivermectin and molt - It can be used during molt, it's the wormers in the benzimidazole class that should be avoided (Safeguard, Valbazen, etc.).

Ivermectin will probably treat large roundworms, and it might treat cecal worms, but there are studies that say it will *not* treat capillary worms and gapeworms. It does not treat tapeworm either. So if one wants to treat for as many worms as possible, it would be best to use Safeguard (fenbendazole) or Valbazen (albendazole).

Wormers approved for egg layer in the US -
There is one drug approved in the US, it's fenbendazole. Zero day egg withdrawal with very small doses of fenbendazole 5 days in a row.

The AquaSol is the product that was approved, but one can substitute Safeguard for goats instead. The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml (about one drop) per five pounds for five consecutive days.

This thread explains how to give Safeguard for goats it in a mash:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/safeguard-mash-zero-day-egg-withdrawal.1254653/

Wormers during molt - Most vets will say not to use Safeguard, Valbazen, or other benzimidazoles during molt because it can damage feathers, but many peafowl breeders and chicken owners do use it during molt and have not had any issues.

I hope this helps clear up some of the concerns about the various wormers.

 

[Seriph]

Lots of wormers mentioned in this thread so I thought I should comment on them. Note that I am not suggesting de-worming and I too think getting rountine fecals is a very good idea.

Wazine Treats large roundworms only. It is not approved for laying hen in the US, but *is* approved for laying hens in Canada.

Ivermectin and molt - It can be used during molt, it's the wormers in the benzimidazole class that should be avoided (Safeguard, Valbazen, etc.).

Ivermectin will probably treat large roundworms, and it might treat cecal worms, but there are studies that say it will *not* treat capillary worms and gapeworms. It does not treat tapeworm either. So if one wants to treat for as many worms as possible, it would be best to use Safeguard (fenbendazole) or Valbazen (albendazole).

Wormers approved for egg layer in the US -
There is one drug approved in the US, it's fenbendazole. Zero day egg withdrawal with very small doses of fenbendazole 5 days in a row.

The AquaSol is the product that was approved, but one can substitute Safeguard for goats instead. The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml (about one drop) per five pounds for five consecutive days.

This thread explains how to give Safeguard for goats it in a mash:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/safeguard-mash-zero-day-egg-withdrawal.1254653/

Wormers during molt - Most vets will say not to use Safeguard, Valbazen, or other benzimidazoles during molt because it can damage feathers, but many peafowl breeders and chicken owners do use it during molt and have not had any issues.

I hope this helps clear up some of the concerns about the various wormers.

Thank you! I’ll keep this for future reference!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Lots of wormers mentioned in this thread so I thought I should comment on them. Note that I am not suggesting de-worming and I too think getting rountine fecals is a very good idea.

Wazine Treats large roundworms only. It is not approved for laying hen in the US, but *is* approved for laying hens in Canada.

Ivermectin and molt - It can be used during molt, it's the wormers in the benzimidazole class that should be avoided (Safeguard, Valbazen, etc.).

Ivermectin will probably treat large roundworms, and it might treat cecal worms, but there are studies that say it will *not* treat capillary worms and gapeworms. It does not treat tapeworm either. So if one wants to treat for as many worms as possible, it would be best to use Safeguard (fenbendazole) or Valbazen (albendazole).

Wormers approved for egg layer in the US -
There is one drug approved in the US, it's fenbendazole. Zero day egg withdrawal with very small doses of fenbendazole 5 days in a row.

The AquaSol is the product that was approved, but one can substitute Safeguard for goats instead. The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml (about one drop) per five pounds for five consecutive days.

This thread explains how to give Safeguard for goats it in a mash:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/safeguard-mash-zero-day-egg-withdrawal.1254653/

Wormers during molt - Most vets will say not to use Safeguard, Valbazen, or other benzimidazoles during molt because it can damage feathers, but many peafowl breeders and chicken owners do use it during molt and have not had any issues.

I hope this helps clear up some of the concerns about the various wormers.

I was hoping you would chime in on this subject. I rarely treat for parasites and you are my go to source.

 

[casportpony]

There is also whole crushed garlic in their ff.

Margaret A. Wissman, D.V.M., D.A.B.V.P. wrote this regarding onions, leeks, garlic, and chives:

"Allicin, which gives garlic its odor, is also a strong oxidant. In rare cases, this chemical can be dangerous and can cause Heinz body hemolytic anemia, as well."

"Although I have not seen any scientific studies performed on any avian species, there is the chance that disulfides could also cause this Heinz body hemolytic anemia in birds. For that reason, I feel that is unnecessary and potentially dangerous to feed onions, leeks, garlic or chives, as they don't contain any nutrients that are vital for the health of our pet bird. Why take the risk?"

Source:
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/onions.html