Red Laced Cornish X and project talk (pics p. 8)

[al6517]

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I'm trying to wrap my brain around color genetics , and getting there slowly LOL . IF I've got it right the S or silver gene is an inhibitor for gold , but does not change or suppress black as far I know . Its an incomplete dominate and I think it will allow red bleed in the shoulders or yellow hackles if a bird is hetero for it and carries gold . Its also sex linked so I think that means roos get two copies but hens only one . That way a red [ or really gold ] roo such as a RIR crossed on a visually white hen that's silver such as some strains of white rocks will produce female chicks that are mostly red and male chicks that are mostly white .
Dominate white [ can't remember the symbol ] is a common one for commercial crosses but it is " leaky " [ meaning it allows small bits of color to show ] , and does not suppress red as well as it does black . Having genes for white does not prevent a bird from also having genes for silver ; I don;t think its an either/or condition . I suppose a meat bird that's both would be an asset as a breeder if you're wanting the clean looking carcass of an all white chicken .

Yes that is the jist of it Steve, especialy what you said about Black.

AL

 

[fl_deb]

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Please forgive me cause I got to the above post in this thread and all I can say is


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I WANT ONE OF THOSE!

Feel free to ignore this rude interuption and continue talking amoungst yourselves.

 

[SteveH]

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Please forgive me cause I got to the above post in this thread and all I can say is


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I WANT ONE OF THOSE!

Feel free to ignore this rude interuption and continue talking amoungst yourselves.

Nothing rude about complimenting someone's chickens ; please join in anytime .

 

[fl_deb]

I'll join once I've learned enough to ask intelligent questions or can parrot what somebody else smarter than I have already stated in answer to a newbie like myself. Or better put....

Better to appear mute, than speak up and confirm stupidity!

 

[KatyTheChickenLady]

lol, hey deb! you're right, there are a lot of STUPID comments out there, but never a stupid question! please do join in any time, I like your style (wit!). we are all here learning and sharing . . . in hopes of speeding up the learning process

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

I'm with fl_deb, love rustyswomans' birds.

I really like the looks of SteveH WLRC's and am anxiously awaiting the results of the taste testing.

I have raised Naked Necks for a meat bird. I love the flavor and their size is good. Take that with a grain of salt as I only have to feed 2 people from 1 bird. But Ideal puts out some bigggg NN. I also have/had Ameraucana EE's. Let me save you some time, the cross between the 2 is not worth doing.

Now I am raising the little Sicilian Buttercups and just trying to select to increase their size. Like taste and the fact that I can let them grow out for a long time and they are still tender, but they are small. Right now I am only keeping the S BC Roo and he has taken a liking to the EE's, actually every hen I have. Her chicks are going on 10 weeks now and though small they are a large breasted bird, all Roo's though.

So I am curious what happens with the WLRC X EE's. Is that next years project or am I going to have to get some WLRC's and more EE's, I am down to 2. Just how big are they? I am just very curious about Cornish and crosses with other varieties of chicken.

Obviously, I am not after a hugh bird or even a real big one. But I do want one that matures between 12-17 weeks and of a decent size. After all the maturing time for the CXR was a total surprise way back when. I normally start culling at week 14 when the S BC's are of a decent size and the Roos are starting to drive me bonkers. Besides, I want colors and I want to play.


Oh, wanted to mention, back before the 50's Dad always gave the chickens Brewers Yeast during Mating season. Helps the Roos with their leg problems. I do the same but, if I see any one limping, they get Nutrional Yeast flakes spread on top of a pie pan full of scratch. Hens and Roos go nuts for it. Wondering if it would help with the Cornish and some of their problems when they are young. I have given it to my Cat with the Vet's blessing, Kidney problems, it helped.

Katy there is an obvious lack of pictures on your end. Is it a tightly kept secret what you have?

 

[SteveH]

So I am curious what happens with the WLRC X EE's. Is that next years project or am I going to have to get some WLRC's and more EE's, I am down to 2. Just how big are they? I am just very curious about Cornish and crosses with other varieties of chicken.

My scales have prooved to be inaccurate , but the WLRC and EE are the same age and size .
I doubt that I'll cross my EE and Ameraucana with the WLRC ; my WLRC are hatchery stock and unless they beef up a lot more than I anticipate I'll just try to cross them with the CX to see if I can get some that resemble white Cornish but bigger , longer shanked , quicker to mature , and more prolific layers . If that cross works out the offspring will later be crossed with Ameraucana . I butchered all of my EE cockerals and all but one of my WLRC cockerals yesterday at 19 and 1/2 weeks . The WLRC were only marginally heavier muscled than the EE , but that was early for the EE and way to early for the WLRC . They needed another month or more but I needed space and meat

. Today I purchased a one year old white Ameraucana roo , 7 Speckled Sussex , 3 Golden Laced Wyandottes [ all pullets at 6 months ] , and with my 4 CX pullets at 19 and 1/2 weeks made that group a breeding pen . The other pen is comprized of 3 CX cockerals over : 5 or 6* blue/black/splash Ameraucana , 3 EE , and 4 WLRC pullets . On deck there's a WLRC cockeral I'll grow out more to see if I want to use him ; and a splash Ameraucana cockeral still too young to breed [ though he's trying at only 13 weeks ] . My goal is a large , dual purpose , cornish bodied type chicken laying blue or green eggs and hardy in all weather .

*I'm thinking one black Ameraucana " pullet " may be a slower maturing roo .​

 

[Buttercup Chillin]

SteveH said:

I butchered all of my EE cockerals and all but one of my WLRC cockerals yesterday at 19 and 1/2 weeks. The WLRC were only marginally heavier muscled than the EE , but that was early for the EE and way to early for the WLRC . They needed another month or more but I needed space and meat . Today I purchased a one year old white Ameraucana roo , 7 Speckled Sussex , 3 Golden Laced Wyandottes [ all pullets at 6 months ] , and with my 4 CX pullets at 19 and 1/2 weeks made that group a breeding pen . The other pen is comprized of 3 CX cockerals over : 5 or 6* blue/black/splash Ameraucana , 3 EE , and 4 WLRC pullets . On deck there's a WLRC cockeral I'll grow out more to see if I want to use him; and a splash Ameraucana cockeral still too young to breed [ though he's trying at only 13 weeks ] . My goal is a large , dual purpose , cornish bodied type chicken laying blue or green eggs and hardy in all weather .

I don't remember where I read it, but in breeding they say to breed for size first, conformation, time to maturity, etc. then work on the color, egg color. I know when they bred the auto sexing such as the cream legbars in Europe, they bred the Leghorn with the BR then to the Araucanas (Our Ameraucanas so to speak). Anyway I think I was looking at the study of when they brought back the Buckeye and how they did that. That is where they talked about what characterists to breed for first.

With me I would be happy with the S BC just bigger, (which mine are slowly getting). They stay tender for a long time. We have eaten them at 30 weeks and they were almost as tender as then they were 15 weeks. Surprized me, and they free range well, but they are a bit flighty when young. They mature rather fast, but DH wants a chicken with a little more breast meat on it. I have to be carefull though, as it is a small framed light weight chicken. I'll find out what he thinks about the SBC X EE in about 5 weeks. I will hold back the best Roo and hens from this cross. If this cross doesn't do it then I may try some WLRC hens or I was thinking the Speckled Sussex also, I have already tried the RIR, NHR and NN. I know what I want, just not sure how to get there. Mean time I keep selecting my S BC for size and keeping them pure for now. There is the problem with using an EE, you don't know what kind of cross it is. I look at mine and think Welsummer, but that's a quess.

Waite a minute, a Ameraucana roo with 14 hens, now my BC Roo could definatley handle that and has, but that might be a bit many hens for an Ameraucana Roo??? Oh, maybe you are thinking of putting your WLRC Roo with the S Sussex group. Your Splach A. Roo is probably ready at 13 weeks or will be in a week or two. How do both A. Roos get along?

I have to go look up these WLRC's.​

 

[SteveH]

I don't remember where I read it, but in breeding they say to breed for size first, conformation, time to maturity, etc. then work on the color, egg color. I know when they bred the auto sexing such as the cream legbars in Europe, they bred the Leghorn with the BR then to the Araucanas (Our Ameraucanas so to speak). Anyway I think I was looking at the study of when they brought back the Buckeye and how they did that. That is where they talked about what characterists to breed for first.

Naturally you should build the barn before you paint it .

Waite a minute, a Ameraucana roo with 14 hens, now my BC Roo could definatley handle that and has, but that might be a bit many hens for an Ameraucana Roo??? Oh, maybe you are thinking of putting your WLRC Roo with the S Sussex group. Your Splach A. Roo is probably ready at 13 weeks or will be in a week or two. How do both A. Roos get along?

I'm not worried about it ; once they start laying I'll give some to the splash if fertility is an issue , and he'll be given some later anyway .
If the white doesn't try the CX pullets they'll be seperated so its all he has . The SS and GLW were an unexpected find and just too good of a deal to pass up ; plus they will add a little heft to the EE off the Ameraucana roos just in case the CX never produce . [ Plus I have to admit I just like that mille fleur pattern on the SS's deep red base , the GLWs are also pretty but were basicly just thrown in to sweeten the pot LOL They're culled , single combed pullets off their breeders pens ]
The WLRC cockeral is hatchery quality ; no way do I want him covering anything other than possibly the CX and maybe not them either .

Good luck with your Buttercups crosses , Buttercup ; nothing wrong with breeding a smaller meat bird if that's what you want on the table.​

 

[slc]

As to the silver gene conversation earlier. I've been learning some things with articles about dominant white in laced polish. The dominant white gene is I/I or I/i+.

Here's how I remember it simply. Silver=black. Black trumps gold and red, dominant white turns black to white. A silver based bird will be solid or patterned white and black only. Dominant white only removes black, so to get a pure white with dominant white you need a black bird or a silver based bird under that dominant white gene. If you start with anything other than silver the dominant white will let red/gold colors to show through and sometimes extend them.

A dark cornish is a reg/gold with black lacing. A wlr cornish is a red/gold with black lacing plus the dominant white gene.

A pure white cornish has to be solid silver first which neither the dark nor wlr cornish are. This is why silver is so important for the white cornish lines.

If you cross solid black (silver) with wlr you'll get all solid white in the first generation. Silver removes red/gold and dominant white removes black. All thats left is white.

If I were to attempt to create a solid white cornish I would first create a high quality solid black cornish line. I'd cross a silver (solid black) bird with a dark cornish to remove the red/gold and the lacing. Then cross the solid black line with wlr cornish. All offspring will be solid white regardless of sex linkage. Further generations crossed with each other will mostly produce either solid white (dominant white) or solid black with a small percentage of non-silver white or black patterned or tinted cream shades. Those offs showing dominant white patterns can be corrected by crossing back to black (silver) cornish.

If you already have white cornish and you get a tinted or off color white you should be able to re-introduce silver by crossing with a silver based or black cornish line according to the chicken calculator. http://kippenjungle.nl/kruisingKipFlexTree.html