REFLECTIONS.....around the notion of 'spalding'!

[Dany12]

Creation of a spalding Cameo 50%.

1 - Male green peacock (Muticus) X IB Female Cameo = spalding (1) 50% split Cameo.
2 - we cross our brothers and sisters ... either ...spalding 50% split Cameo X spalding 50% split Cameo = Spalding Cameo 50%


Creating a 50% blue spalding.

1 - Male green peacock (Muticus) X IB female = spalding (2) 50% split Blue.
2 - we cross our brothers and sisters ... either... spalding 50% split Blue X spalding 50% split Blue = Spalding Blue 50%. (3)

1 and 2 physically are they the same?

In theory yes because the split has only one gene of the color and carries no external sign of the presence of this gene!


You will have noticed that as for the creation of spalding Cameo 50% for the creation of the spalding Bleu 50% it is necessary also two stages!


1 2 and 3 physically are they the same?

2 and 3 are they 'more' the same?

What does 3 look like?
What do you call 1 .... just spalding? ... no color ?

 

[Dany12]

Are these crossings the same?
Male green peacock X female IB ... hinny spalding
Male IB X green peahen ..... mule spalding

Why this 50% spalding color is so rare?

 

[KsKingBee]

It is rare because the ONLY 50% Spalding is the first crossing and all subsequent crossings will not breed true creating different percentages of Spaulding even from the same parents.

 

[Dany12]

It's not a real hybrid!
Is there another example?
Dzo or yakow cross breeding between Yak and Cow.
Golden Pheasant and Lady Amherst Pheasant.
They still fertile!

First generation everybody the same ...
and second generation it changes !

The example is not good because the spalding on the first generation doesn't look like his father ... nor his mother ... he has an intermediate phenotype!

 

[KsKingBee]

Peafowl don't work like that.

 

[Dany12]

All the color ' non-sex-linked' :
Male Pavo Muticus ( green peacock) X female Bronze = Spalding 'Bronze' 50%.
Male Pavo Muticus ( green peacock) X female Opal = Spalding 'Opal' 50%.
Male Pavo Muticus ( green peacock) X female Platinum = Spalding 'Platinum' 50%.

All spalding 50% of 'non-sex-linked' colors are genetically different (split) .... but are the phenotypes (physically) different? the color genes of the mother influence the color of the young!
The young spalding 50% is not like the father ... and is not like the mother it's a real mix of both!

 

[Dany12]

With color sex-linked :
Example with the color Violet (European Violet).
Female Pavo Muticus spicifer ( green peafowl) X Male Violet = Spalding Violet 50% female ( only one gene is needed to show the color !).

And spalding 50% split violet male :

Very very dark because of the sub-specie spicifer .... the darkest Muticus !Especially the wings!
How can we label this bird?
Blue spalding 50% split Violet !
Is it a mix of a green peacock and a Violet peahen or only with the half blue of the mother's genome?
I think we know everythings about spalding ... but in fact ... we know nothing!

All the young males coming from this peahen (Pavo muticus spicifer) and other sex linked peacocks ... like Cameo, Purple ... etc ... will be the same!exactly the same !

 

[Rosa moschata]

I think you need to do some more genetics review.

First, Cameo is a sex-linked mutation, so using a female Cameo means only the sons will be split to Cameo, since females can't be split to sex-linked mutations. If you crossed brother and sister from those offspring, about half of the hens will be Cameo, but that's it. Rather, it'd be better to cross a male Cameo to a female Green, then all the daughters would be Spalding Cameo with 50% Green blood.

Second, Mendelian genetics and ratios of offspring deal with discrete traits, not the suite of traits that are involved with crossing species. The first generation cross between a Green and a Blue will generally look the same across the board because they all have one set of Blue chromosomes and one set of Green chromosomes. When that first hybrid generation breeds within themselves, yes, statistically their offspring will still be about 50% Green, but not necessarily the same 50%. Here's a way to visualize why.

Let's say, instead of chromosomes, you have pairs of letters -- A through G. Now, peafowl certainly have many more chromosomes than seven, but this is enough for illustration. The letters will be red or blue, representing Green or Blue peafowl, respectively. I tried this first with green and blue letters but realized they looked too similar on the screen. When a Green and Blue mate, their first-generation offspring will get one copy of each letter from each parent. So they'll have one blue A and one red A, one blue B and one red B, and so on.

AA BB CC DD EE FF GG

Now you want to breed those first-generation Spaldings. Each parent gives one each of its paired letters, but which letter will be random. So the F2 offspring could be any combination of colored letters.

AA BB CC DD EE FF GG


AA BB CC DD EE FF GG


etc.

And this doesn't take into account that chromosomes can twist and swap parts between the pairs, so that instead of passing on original chromosomes, the hybrid offspring will pass on newly-recombined chromosomes made from pieces of both.

So that's why "Spaldings don't breed true".

Now, regarding breeding mutation Blues to Greens, the percentage of Green denotes just that -- the rest is Blue. The color mutations are just single genes, not an entire genome as with a species. So if you want to note the degree of Green blood in the Spalding, that goes first, followed by any mutations which are visual, followed by any mutations which are split.

75% Spalding Purple split to Bronze

This means that the bird has 75% Green ancestry, is visual for the Purple mutation, and is split to the Bronze mutation.

 

[KsKingBee]

Wouldn't it be better to not use a number % at all since 'Spaulding don't breed true'? We can not know the % after the first crossing so many of us use only the terms Low, Mid, and High % when describing a Spaulding.

 

[Dany12]

Thank you for your intervention!

And this doesn't take into account that chromosomes can twist and swap parts between the pairs, so that instead of passing on original chromosomes, the hybrid offspring will pass on newly-recombined chromosomes made from pieces of both.

It's very very rare ... no ?
" the hybrid offspring will pass on newly-recombined chromosomes made from pieces of both"
Specific for hybrids?
The father bring 1/2 of the genome of the offspring the other half is brought by the mother.Why would there be permanent partial recombination? accidents are rare ... this is not the rule!
In a cross IB X IB that happens too?
How to produce a high percentage spalding with blue-scaled feathers in the neck?
The green color crushes the blue color!