Reform a cannibal??

[Maton1]

So, we found out a week ago that our most loved Hen in the family started going after the other chickens feet to the point of drawing blood. I wouldn't call it 'pecking' per say even though it is,,,,butt almost like biting. She really pecks hard and pulls as if with the intent to draw blood. In the pic below it maybe doesn't look so bad but she did this in a little over an hour's time. She started on another one as well. It started on just last week on the coldest day of winter and all the chickens stayed bunched up together under the coop. There she went to work and fast!!

How I think it all started. Well, we have 5 hens total and only one of the 5 went into a molt this winter. The molting hen is a Maran and she has feathers on her legs. As new pin feathers were coming in on the feet a few bled and I think that's when it all started. 'Twitchy', (her name), discovered that blood and liked it of course. She also started pulling on the feathers real hard of the molting Maran as well as another Maran we have. I also noticed she was going after the fallen off flakes of skins on the bottom of the Coop left from the molting Maran.

This is our first winter with the chickens. We've had them now about a year. Twitchy has never shown signs of doing this before.

I've isolated her since the last couple of days. My question is ....can you really reform such a behaviour (pecking violently of chicken's feet)? Is it really worth it or will trying just prolong the stress? Maybe some simply say it's time for the soup kettle. Or maybe just give her away to another maybe bigger flock. She is young and a great egg layer.

She's the favorite in the family and no one wants to give her up. That's the problem. She became kind of a pet so to say. She's the only tame one.

I know a lot of the possibilities......isolation, pinless peepers, bumpa bits, add more protein to diet, add margarine and butter, boredom busters, vaseline and teatree oil, wicks vaper rub etc............etc....

but in general is there much hope in reforming such a behavior (attacking feet) or is it better to prepare to move on without her in the group? That's life, eat or be eaten.

As relative newbies we're a little bit a wits end and not sure what to do except go through all the lost list of possibilities above. Thanks for any further advice from experience, those who've had chicken feet cannibals before that is! thnx

 

[DobieLover]

So, we found out a week ago that our most loved Hen in the family started going after the other chickens feet to the point of drawing blood. I wouldn't call it 'pecking' per say even though it is,,,,butt almost like biting. She really pecks hard and pulls as if with the intent to draw blood. In the pic below it maybe doesn't look so bad but she did this in a little over an hour's time. She started on another one as well. It started on just last week on the coldest day of winter and all the chickens stayed bunched up together under the coop. There she went to work and fast!!

How I think it all started. Well, we have 5 hens total and only one of the 5 went into a molt this winter. The molting hen is a Maran and she has feathers on her legs. As new pin feathers were coming in on the feet a few bled and I think that's when it all started. 'Twitchy', (her name), discovered that blood and liked it of course. She also started pulling on the feathers real hard of the molting Maran as well as another Maran we have. I also noticed she was going after the fallen off flakes of skins on the bottom of the Coop left from the molting Maran.

This is our first winter with the chickens. We've had them now about a year. Twitchy has never shown signs of doing this before.

I've isolated her since the last couple of days. My question is ....can you really reform such a behaviour (pecking violently of chicken's feet)? Is it really worth it or will trying just prolong the stress? Maybe some simply say it's time for the soup kettle. Or maybe just give her away to another maybe bigger flock. She is young and a great egg layer.

She's the favorite in the family and no one wants to give her up. That's the problem. She became kind of a pet so to say. She's the only tame one.

I know a lot of the possibilities......isolation, pinless peepers, bumpa bits, add more protein to diet, add margarine and butter, boredom busters, vaseline and teatree oil, wicks vaper rub etc............etc....

but in general is there much hope in reforming such a behavior (attacking feet) or is it better to prepare to move on without her in the group? That's life, eat or be eaten.

As relative newbies we're a little bit a wits end and not sure what to do except go through all the lost list of possibilities above. Thanks for any further advice from experience, those who've had chicken feet cannibals before that is! thnx

Yes, you can correct bad behavior if you address the cause(s).

Lack of protein. What exactly are you feeding them?
Lack of space. How much space do they have in the coop and the run in sq ft? Can you post pictures?
Lack of stimulation. What is in their environment? Again... pictures.

I would ensure they have more than the minimum of all of the above. While you are addressing these, keep her crated with the flock while the others heal.

After the others feet look good, let her out to observe. Hopefully, with lots of other things to do, space to enjoy and a higher protein quality feed available, she will forget about the 'fun' she had pecking feet. If not, get the pinless peepers and put them on her for a few weeks.

You'll never know if you don't try.

 

[dawg53]

Put pinless peepers on her. That's what I use and they work. You'll need the pliers to install them.
https://www.meyerhatchery.com/Clip-On-Blinders-25-Pack-p156354450
https://www.meyerhatchery.com/Snap-Ring-Plier-for-Clip-on-Blinders-p156354645

 

[Maton1]

Thank you so much for both replies! That gave me a little hope. I'll keep her one more night separated then that will be the 4th night. Then I'll let her loose and see how it goes.

I checked the legemehl feed and it contains 16.5% raw protein.
I've been supplementing some extra protein sources a few times a week. Carefully giving them some mealworms on the side.

I've noticed the real meat lovers among them don't hang around the coop as much as I'm cleaning. Before they'd be there looking for any molted of skin flakes they could pick off.

Now they go about their business in the garden while I clean. Maybe a good sign.

The only thing that concerns me is the one Hen in the picture I provided. She healed up fine but those two spots you see in the pic are still there although more now a reddish brown color. I think it would take months for that skin to be completely replaced and the natural color return. I hope the other one isn't attracted to those bullseye spots when I release her.

Anyways the isolated one seems more relaxed and isn't so interested in going after the other ones in between the fence anymore.

I got the pinless peepers ready. Thanks again!

 

[DobieLover]

Thank you so much for both replies! That gave me a little hope. I'll keep her one more night separated then that will be the 4th night. Then I'll let her loose and see how it goes.

I checked the legemehl feed and it contains 16.5% raw protein.
I've been supplementing some extra protein sources a few times a week. Carefully giving them some mealworms on the side.

I've noticed the real meat lovers among them don't hang around the coop as much as I'm cleaning. Before they'd be there looking for any molted of skin flakes they could pick off.

Now they go about their business in the garden while I clean. Maybe a good sign.

The only thing that concerns me is the one Hen in the picture I provided. She healed up fine but those two spots you see in the pic are still there although more now a reddish brown color. I think it would take months for that skin to be completely replaced and the natural color return. I hope the other one isn't attracted to those bullseye spots when I release her.

Anyways the isolated one seems more relaxed and isn't so interested in going after the other ones in between the fence anymore.

I got the pinless peepers ready. Thanks again!

Instead of periodically offering protein sources, I would switch the flock over to something with 18-20% protein like a good chick starter, Flock Raiser or All Flock. Put a couple of container of oyster shell on the side for active layers.
Can you provide pictures of your setup?

 

[Maton1]

Instead of periodically offering protein sources, I would switch the flock over to something with 18-20% protein like a good chick starter, Flock Raiser or All Flock. Put a couple of container of oyster shell on the side for active layers.
Can you provide pictures of your setup?

Ok. I'll look up some of those higher protein feeds. I give them oyster shells already but I backed off a little a few months ago after I found an egg that had a lot of calcium deposit on it. I thought maybe I was giving them too much.
I know it prob doesn't help you help me too much but I don't post a lot of pics online.
It's just a personal thing but I hear what you're saying about the layout, space, activities etc..
and I'm taking your advice seriously.
Appreciate it much!

Would you switch to a higher protein feed only for the winter months or better all year around? I guess that would depend on if they're free range or not right?
thnx much

 

[DobieLover]

Ok. I'll look up some of those higher protein feeds. I give them oyster shells already but I backed off a little a few months ago after I found an egg that had a lot of calcium deposit on it. I thought maybe I was giving them too much.
I know it prob doesn't help you help me too much but I don't post a lot of pics online.
It's just a personal thing but I hear what you're saying about the layout, space, activities etc..
and I'm taking your advice seriously.
Appreciate it much!

Would you switch to a higher protein feed only for the winter months or better all year around? I guess that would depend on if they're free range or not right?
thnx much

I feed 18-20% protein year round. Good nutrition should always be provided. Not just during cold weather.

 

[Maton1]

Put pinless peepers on her. That's what I use and they work. You'll need the pliers to install them.
https://www.meyerhatchery.com/Clip-On-Blinders-25-Pack-p156354450
https://www.meyerhatchery.com/Snap-Ring-Plier-for-Clip-on-Blinders-p156354645

Thanks. We might try them tomorrow as it's been 4-5 days of isolation now and we will see how she does around the others now.

I'm a litte unsure though about these peeper. Wow, they are very stiff and seem as if they could puncture the tissue around the nose. I've heard though that it's good to cook them a little in boiling water to make them more pliable. I'm kinda hoping she's reformed but will apple the peepers when all else has failed.

The Brittians use something similar to peepers called a bumpa bit. It also fits in the nose but instead of blinders the bird bites down on a bit so that they can't close their beaks entirely. They can eat and drink fine but it stops them from being able to bite down on skin and pull out feathers. But those would also be as a last dying resort for me.

 

[Maton1]

We put the peepers in today. Kinda sad. It's been about an hour or so and the chicken is still not really adjusting to them. She acts confused, and sometimes moving backwards and not really able yet to eat normally. How long should I wait? Since it was my first time doing this I was a little nervous and applied the peepers more in the the front of the nostrils. I guess I was thinking there in the front is less skin to hurt the chicken.

Anyways, she seems pretty confused. I read somewhere that they need about 10 min. or so to adjust to the peepers then they go back to their normal business. If she doesn't adjust after a few hours or so should I just take them out?

If the peepers don't work I guess I'd have to give her away.

 

[Maton1]

Well folks, I really appreciated all the tips I got here and I considered and tried. But sadly most of what we've tried hasn't worked for the hen that's been pecking at feet.

Poor thing has been in a box for a few weeks (of course I let her out but she's isolated).

She still goes after feet. We tried the spray, peepers, isolation and trying to make their run more interesting. Then we tried giving her to another place with tons of space but it didn't work. I guess most people won't take just one chicken.

Of course she is the favorite hen. Probably made the mistake of treating her like a pet.

I went through the check lists of what could be the root of the problemg from this thread and concluded that the root problem is probably lack of space.

We have a little over 100 sq feet.

Because of that it's hard also to make the space more interesting and still practical where you can move around inside it to work.

We are pretty much dissapointed it ended like this but I've learned that aggressive pecking and cannibalism are pretty common things.

All was fine for the last year until about 3 weeks ago.

I have also noticed a few other birds pecking at the feet of our Marans, which have feathers on their feet and causing them to bleed a little.

I think because of the problem of space we're now possibly looking for a family who has more space for them.

I enjoyed taking care of them but maybe we can't supply them with what they need.

Thanks again for all the help and sorry to those especially who I bugged too much with PM questions.