Retrospective Look at Meat Birds: Chicken of Tomorrow (Video)

[galanie]

This thread is really about chickens. Do you profit off chickens, Sky?

 

[kfacres]

Quote:
not really.. the only difference is the corperate farmer has found a way to do what he does best.. and make a profit doing so.

the farmer, tinkers with 100 little projects, does each half assed cuz they have too much going on at one time to concentrate their efforts... and in the long run they still remain in the hole at the end of the year..

Ya, I guess you could say there is a difference...

Jody Kabat
a farmer...

Forgive me, but I have to respectfully disagree with this notion. There are several flaws in this sort of picture, which as a farmer who works hard to try to counteract the destructive methods of "industrial farming" (in whatever small ways I can), I just can't let pass.

Firstly, the sort of specialization theory kfacres refers to makes great sense in economics, but in agriculture it's been shown to be a disaster. Industrial agriculture is an ecological, social, and health nightmare, while diversified farms that are well-managed can actually improve (or at least cause no destruction of) the surrounding ecosystems and the human communities they sustain. That is what built this nation, after all--and not just economically, but culturally, in terms of national identity itself (remember Old Macdonald?

)

And the only reason that the "corporate farmer" these days is "making a profit doing so" is because of the government subsidies on corn and soy monocultures. Without them, those crops couldn't make a profit at all (actually they lose money), and without all the cheap (i.e., subsidized) corn and soy, other industrial ag operations like intensive indoor poultry "farms" and concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) wouldn't be possible either--or at least, not nearly as profitable. Because it was those same subsidies that originally provided the groundwork for those "factory farms" in the first place.

Sky
another farmer

Just to make it clear, I am an employee of the federal gov.. the USDA actually on the NRCS side (Natural Resouce Conservation Service) In case you never heard of it. I'm also a non participant-- my farm makes a profit... and I dont' get the subsidies.. My wife is also an employee of the USDA- but she works on the FSA side of the building.... (Farm Service Agency). On my side, we assist farmer, ranchers, and other folks on addressing resource concerns- whether that's erosion (mainly), wildlife benefit, trees, insects, or whatever. My wife is one of the people who is the boss on their side, mainly which assists the farmers in granting payment for whatever program they are in (unless it's through EQIP (Enviromental Quality Incentive Program), which we handle.

Just to let you know, that very few people- actually get enough of a subsidie to make a difference...just as the person below you stated.

the only people who get a significant payment check annually are people enrolled in specific programs, such as CSP- (Conservation Stewardship Program). By being in this program, you're stating that your farm is doing all it can, and has done to prevent erosion, maintain sustainablility, and improve upon something...etc etc...

I guess what I'm saying is.. DOn't YOU DARE try and tell me how "subsidies" work, and that these "monoculture" farmers only survive off them...

My parents run a small little operation, diversified family farm type deal- and they can't make ends meet any more than we can.

To be quite honest, it's the little guy that's hurting, and needing those extra payments and assistance more and more...

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Subsidies on corn alone last year was 3.5 billion dollars. Now conservation subsidies was around 2 million as of last year. Add all the ridiculous amounts of other subsidies that have little purpose other than politics and you have what close to 20 billion dollars? The top 10% of farms that receive subsidies gets 74% of all money that's paid out. Average farmer in that 10% gets paid $30,000. The bottom 80% of those farms that receive subsidies was just shy under $600.

The problem is, the big guys are getting the subsidies... not the guys farming a few hundred acres. Farms that have a 400 head of dairy, or 300 acres of corn, or even a couple commercial scale chicken barns are considered small time farmers.

To say subsidies don't help corporate farms is ridiculous, they for sure don't help small farmers trying to make a living. $600.00 doesn't even pay for the fertilizer for the year let a lone put any food on the table.

 

[Pineywoods Peepers]

Man, those were some scrawny lookin' chickens!

 

[galanie]

Quote:
Bwhahaha they sure are! I love the music starting at 3:00. Also the embryo development part was great.

 

[kfacres]

Quote:
the "little" as you put it, farmers, don't need the money from the gov.. they are small enough they can't afford to farm full time, and thus go into town to get a real paying job. Farming is just a hobby, or past time... If you can't do it on a large scale anymore, get out... plain and simple truth. go big or go home as I was always told.

there's one more thing that I think plays right into what you are saying... "If you can't run with the big dogs... stay on the porch..."

If you're without... your jelous, if you're with... you're in the game and thankful...

Maybe these little farmers are too proud to go out and search to find the money. Did you ever think that being diverse makes it much harder, and most of the time much more complicated to reap gov benefits?

These corn soybean guys are all enrolled in CSP-- the diverse people can't get into CSP very easily becuase of divesity, therefore it shoots them in the foot..

another thing that you had better go out and preach is livestock and pasture management plans. Before you start telling me about diverse livestock and grain producers needing subsidies, you go out and ask every single one of them if they're interested in two things: ONe rotational or intensive grazing.. and TWO- filling out the paperwork... and I bet 95% of them tell you NO-- the 5% who do.. I bet they've already got a plan and program in place and are reaping the benefits...

what it boils down to, sad as it is.. the little guys don't want to do the paperwork, and they don't want to change. They want to do it like it's been done for 100 years-- yet they gripe and complain about not getting any finacial assistance to "address resource concerns", or advance into the current day-in age-...

I'll argue day in and day out.. I deal with this, and these kind of people/ complaints day in and day out...

 

[Tracydr]

Quote:
Back when I was a kid, in a time with few meds and no vaccines for birds, the NHR was famous as a breed for its disease resistance. You know you're old when you can remember getting the "new" [and very controversial] polio vaccine; and parents wanted us kids exposed to the "childhood diseases" so we wouldn't get them as adults.

Oh My God I haven't heard anyone mention that in YEARs! haha my folks were different though. get that polio vaccine. Still got the scar on my upper arm to prove it. Funny nowadays seeing only older people with that scar.

That's small pox.

 

[galanie]

Quote:
Oh My God I haven't heard anyone mention that in YEARs! haha my folks were different though. get that polio vaccine. Still got the scar on my upper arm to prove it. Funny nowadays seeing only older people with that scar.

That's small pox.

Oops! You're right! See there, old age... the mind goes first

 

[triplepurpose]

Quote:
Forgive me, but I have to respectfully disagree with this notion. There are several flaws in this sort of picture, which as a farmer who works hard to try to counteract the destructive methods of "industrial farming" (in whatever small ways I can), I just can't let pass.

Firstly, the sort of specialization theory kfacres refers to makes great sense in economics, but in agriculture it's been shown to be a disaster. Industrial agriculture is an ecological, social, and health nightmare, while diversified farms that are well-managed can actually improve (or at least cause no destruction of) the surrounding ecosystems and the human communities they sustain. That is what built this nation, after all--and not just economically, but culturally, in terms of national identity itself (remember Old Macdonald?

)

And the only reason that the "corporate farmer" these days is "making a profit doing so" is because of the government subsidies on corn and soy monocultures. Without them, those crops couldn't make a profit at all (actually they lose money), and without all the cheap (i.e., subsidized) corn and soy, other industrial ag operations like intensive indoor poultry "farms" and concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) wouldn't be possible either--or at least, not nearly as profitable. Because it was those same subsidies that originally provided the groundwork for those "factory farms" in the first place.

Sky
another farmer

Just to make it clear, I am an employee of the federal gov.. the USDA actually on the NRCS side (Natural Resouce Conservation Service) In case you never heard of it. I'm also a non participant-- my farm makes a profit... and I dont' get the subsidies.. My wife is also an employee of the USDA- but she works on the FSA side of the building.... (Farm Service Agency). On my side, we assist farmer, ranchers, and other folks on addressing resource concerns- whether that's erosion (mainly), wildlife benefit, trees, insects, or whatever. My wife is one of the people who is the boss on their side, mainly which assists the farmers in granting payment for whatever program they are in (unless it's through EQIP (Enviromental Quality Incentive Program), which we handle.

Just to let you know, that very few people- actually get enough of a subsidie to make a difference...just as the person below you stated.

the only people who get a significant payment check annually are people enrolled in specific programs, such as CSP- (Conservation Stewardship Program). By being in this program, you're stating that your farm is doing all it can, and has done to prevent erosion, maintain sustainablility, and improve upon something...etc etc...

I guess what I'm saying is.. DOn't YOU DARE try and tell me how "subsidies" work, and that these "monoculture" farmers only survive off them...

My parents run a small little operation, diversified family farm type deal- and they can't make ends meet any more than we can.

To be quite honest, it's the little guy that's hurting, and needing those extra payments and assistance more and more...

Kfacres, Lazy J Farms, and others, I'm truly sorry to see that my comments were taken so personally. I never meant it that way. Did I oversimplify? Yes, I'm sure. Am I an expert of the subject of farm subsidies and government beauracracy? No. My point was only that the system is broken in a number of ways, and we need to find ways to fix it. I understand that the situation is far more nuanced than a brief comment on an internet forum can acknowledge. And I apologize if any oversimplifications, innaccuracies, or perhaps something in the tone of my comment offended anyone personally...

I also apologize for my part in taking this thread off-topic, as gelanie complained about (and yes, I do profit by keeping chickens, gelanie--not much, but enough to make it worthwhile--but speaking of relevance--I'm puzzled by the question--unless you just mean to be passive aggressive).

Also, Bruntyfarms, thank you for thoughtful, sensitive comments on the subject... You too made a number of good points... I especially thought what you said about "feeding the community" rather than "feeding the world" was especially timely and well said.

But just to show my good faith, one more thing, and then I'm through: you say yourself, kfacres, "it's the little guy that's hurting." So clearly we have very similar concerns! Concerned well-meaning folks like ourselves should be working together to strive, each in their own way, for meaningful agricultural reform that helps that little guy and the American people as a whole, rather than just corporate interest. So please don't make me your whipping post guys--I'm just another concerned citizen/farmer, not your enemy!

That was the heart of my point, that REMAINS my point, and the rest is just my imperfect attempts to articulate it... That's all.

Bless you all, truly,
Sky

 

[kfacres]

My point was only that the system is broken in a number of ways, and we need to find ways to fix it.

I agree in more than 1 way with this statement.. the problem, well I won't get into the problems.. but I honestly do not see a bright outlook for the future. I think the main problem is the people making the rules, and decided where money is spent- are swayed in thought.

But just to show my good faith, one more thing, and then I'm through: you say yourself, kfacres, "it's the little guy that's hurting." So clearly we have very similar concerns! Concerned well-meaning folks like ourselves should be working together to strive,

Again, like I said above... the little guy needs to change in order to progress. These old timers need to sit down, discuss things, and do a better job of what they do in order to succeed. I think it all roots back to change. There is assistance money out there for everybody, by the thousands... it's just these people don't either ask for it, or want it bad enough.