We have to help each other. Together we can at least approximate a vet. There is a ton of knowledge in the people who participate in these threads.I think most of us on these threads do ~ the exception being Shad who has a ton of knowledge & a very good vet @ his disposal. Most of us don't have a great vet so we muddle along doing the best we can with inadequate knowledge. MJ has a great avian vet & I think Lozzy does too. It's why sharing & helping each other becomes so important.