RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[spartacus_63]

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What Facts?
The only facts you have is that you have birds from Murray McMurray. You have No facts on if that bird is a R.I. Red of not.
You can keep all the records you want it isn't going to make them any less a production red/ hatchery bird..

Chris

You have omitted that my birds are true to weight at appropriate age and my egg numbers are well within the RIR expected range. It is not all about ribbons ya know. And I was responding to a person who hasn't even laid an egg yet.

 

[Chris09]

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You may want do some rereading.

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.

Your birds don't meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed.
Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

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You may want do some rereading.

1. APA Standard Breed. Heritage Chicken must be from parent and grandparent stock of breeds recognized by the American Poultry Association (APA) prior to the mid-20th century; whose genetic line can be traced back multiple generations; and with traits that meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed. Heritage Chicken must be produced and sired by an APA Standard breed. Heritage eggs must be laid by an APA Standard breed.

Your birds don't meet the APA Standard of Perfection guidelines for the breed.
Chris

It is highly likely that if I entered some of my birds in a local fair or other contest that used the APA judging criteria, that they would not be DQ'd, therefore I would meet the requirement set by the APA as you underlined. If I jumped to some state level or higher show, I may be disappointed. I will stand by my opinion that my birds are RIRs and that they are of heritage stock in accordance with the definition set forth by the ALBC.

 

[Illia]

Char971 - Those are Production Reds.

They're too skinny, too orange, and have the production type body for heritage type.


Spartacus -

Yes, and yet we go right back to the fact that Murray McMurray Hatchery is not a qualified source of heritage Rhode Island Reds.

ANY poultry breeder, expert, enthusiast knows that.

Also, of course you may get some awards if you showed your birds at a fair. Gosh, people win with Easter Eggers and, like you have, production bred birds there. Why? Because most judges at local fairs aren't up to par with APA SOP judging AND there are so few entries there.

Winning with a Rhode Island Red that is competing against other production stock or none others isn't exactly proving much.

But, again, if you so claim yours are heritage, the least you could do is show proof.

Stock from Murray McMurray - No.

Weight of hens and cocks - You told us the SOP measurements right down to the half pound, so of course, no.

Photos to show proof that they are up to the SOP - No. A rooster facing us doesn't say much. Sure, he is darker than some, but for one he's male, so he's naturally a dark color. Beyond that there's not much to see, as even you said, other than he's male, red, and has a single comb and yellow legs.


The least you could do is back out and admit you have no proof. That, or show proof if you're so adamant.

 

[spartacus_63]

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I suppose if I put a picture of my birds up that was beyond your expectation, you would then say it could not be from MM. What is the point? I quoted averages of my birds. And yes they hit the breed traits. Maybe there is a reason for that. I also had a cockerel that was above average and two that were processed too young to count. If you would like to see my birds or look at my recorded weights and egg production, then by all means stop by and I'll show you...if not, then I guess you too just don't like my birds because they came from a hatchery.

I have taken into account more than just a shade of color. My birds are the appropriate size and shape, they have decent color and are above average at producing eggs. BTW, I have never before claimed that my birds were heritage birds. I have always maintained that they are RIR. If you all want to carve a niche in the market so you can charge more or have cool kid bragging rights, then why don't you petition the APA or the ALBC to be more specific, or to start registering pedigrees. For any of you to question the origins of my birds without proof is sophomoric. The RIR breed has been around for a century and a half. The chances that any RIR is as pure as the wind driven snow is slim. The chances that some strains were bred for differing purposes is documented. Some strains sacrificed weight, some sacrificed egg production, but that does not make any bird less of it's breed. I respect your dedication to your beliefs, I just do not share them.

I have not seen a list of approved or disapproved hatcheries...is this another opinion perhaps?

 

[Char971]

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Shucks! That really stinks! That pic was taken a few months ago when they were about 4 months. They are lighter than the pics I have seen, but my roosters and not skinny any more, by no means! I call them PIGS instead of Chickens! LOL!

I'll have to stop by that farmers market and...just kidding. Doesn't matter cause they are all my "little chick-a-dees"!

So...would I still get Black Sex Links if I cross bred my Reds with my Barred Rock Hens or does it HAVE to be a RIR or NH / BR??

 

[Chris09]

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When did this happen? You are either misreading things or trying to put word in my mouth.

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yes you have.
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There is a Production Red.
One type of Production Red is a Rhode Island Red with Leghorn blood added the other was bred solely from the Rhode Island Red much like the New Hampshire.
When producing this breed the bird lost all the characteristics of a true R.I. Red.

What you have is are Production Reds there sole purpose in life is to be productive and produce eggs.
Hatcheries want good productive birds and one's with good egg Production so they have Production Breeds.
Hatcheries want to produce all the eggs they can from there Production Breeds, the more eggs they produce the more eggs they can hatch, the more eggs they hatch the chicks they can sell, the more chicks they sell the more money they make.

Hatcheries are in it for the money not the preservation of a breed so they will and have crossed more productive breeds into less productive breeds to raise there productivity.


Chris

 

[Chris09]

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Your good, They will still produce Sex Links.
Most any color Male over a Barred Female will produce a Black Sex Links..

Chris

 

[Char971]

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Good morning! Illia was nice enough to respond to my post that I have Production Reds, which is fine with me. However, you state they are only breed to produce eggs. What would classify a bird as a multi-purpose (eggs and meat) bird? I'll take a few updated pics of my reds today as the roosters are HUGE! I have 2 that are skinny, but the other ones I swear I could have eaten them for Thanksgiving! LOL! I'm just curious what size is considered to be a good meat bird.

Thanks!

 

[Char971]

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Your good, They will still produce Sex Links.
Most any color Male over a Barred Female will produce a Black Sex Links..

Chris

LOL! We must have posted at the same time! Thanks for the info!