RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[cubalaya]

spartacus, its like someone buying ameraucanas and finding out later that they are really easter eggers. i like my easter eggers. most are slate legged and lay blue or green eggs. i call them non standard ameraucanas. there is nothing wrong with easter eggers. there is nothing wrong with production reds. easter eggers are not standard ameraucanas. production reds are not standard rhode island reds.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I found out about this thread last night. It reminds me when I was in junior high boys would push me behind the Junior high gym and force me to fight other boys who wanted to take me on to see if they could whip my butt. Kind of like the gun slingers in the old west they would ride there horse hundreds of miles to locate the fastest guy in that town then challenge him to a gun fight on the street to see if he could be the one that killed the fastest gun in the west. It seems today the same stuff happens with Rhode Island Reds whos got the real ones or are the this stupid term HERITAGE.

The guestion that was asked as I see it is WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RHODE ISLAND REDS AND NEW HAMPSHIRE REDS.

First there are many Rhode Island Reds Single Comb Standard large fowl about 200 alive this month in my view.

Next Rose Comb Rhode Island Red Standard large fowl. about 50 to 75 alive in the month of Dec.

Next there is Single Comb Standard breed bantams about 400 alive in Dec

Next there are Rose Comb Standard breed bantams and maybe about75 to 100 alive in the month of Dec.

The reason I say this is breeding season and during the summer they should be three to five times more do to hatching and raising birds to improve the breeder’s gene pool. Know I said breeder’s gene pool. These are men and women who breed Standard Rhode Island Reds of all four sizes to a Standard of perfection. On this web site there may be 5,000 members but how many own a Standard of Perfection or would even obey one. 1% maybe.>>???????

Next you asked what is the difference between R I Reds and New Hampshire Reds.??? Let me tell you I have owned and read all the Rhode Island Red Journals, Rhode Island Red Chronicles going back to 1912 to the present. I have read them many times and I have never heard of such a breed of Standard breed fowl nor have I heard of a bantam that has such a name. All great breeds of large fowl have bantams and they are now what many people breed from. I have also read and owned over 150 poultry books from 1850 to the 1950s. Never heard of such a breed. There is another name called Domincikers. Domininkers are black and white chicken’s large fowl or barred rocks from the hatchery. Again no such breed. These are slang or nick names given by people over the years. My dad use to call a beef calf a Durum if it had colors of the Short Horn color. Use to drive me nuts as they where mixed breed calves that we would see at the sale barn when we would go there on Saturdays.

Let me tell you I raised R I Red Standard Breed Large fowl from an old breeder whose name was E W Reese jr.. I was at his farm and interviewed him in and out up and down until I had a head ache. He was not only a Red man but a Jersey Cow man and judge.

I breed his line of birds for 15 years and raised about 2000 birds in that time to get the females to lay about 195 to 200 eggs per year. I could not get them to lay anymore and further more I could care less how many they laid as I was breeding for feather quality, body shape width of body and dark dark color in the females. I finally got females that would feather in their tails in ten days and my production reds would shoot feathers out of their tails at age seven days. They would lay 250 eggs per year. When I reached this goal of time I got tired of this challenge and wanted something different to do. My females would weigh about 6 1/2 pounds one pound over standard weight. The males would weigh about 9 pounds about a pound and half over standard weight. They laid 24 oz per dozen eggs and I got good hatches because they had such tight feathers over the back area. Today there are two people who have my old Mohawk line of large fowl STANDARD breed R I Reds. I don’t think they would lay more than 175 eggs per year. I have two friends in Colorado who have a small flock and are building up their numbers. They are very rare and hard to get.

Is this a line of chickens you should get to have to lay lots of eggs.??? NO

What you are thinking I Think is what is the difference between Commercial Production Rhode Island Reds that you see at feed stores or from good hatchers vs these so called New Hampshire Reds.

The answer is go with Privets or Ideal Hatchery commercial reds. Don’t worry about their color, don’t worry about their tail angle or if they have brick shape and for GODS sake do not worry about breeding them to the standard of perfection.

Now let me tell you what I think you are talking about these so called New Hampshire Reds. You are talking about the New Hampshire’s sold by hatcheries. They are not as good as commercial reds from good hatcheries.

I am an expert in the breeding of Standard Breed Rhode Island Reds large and small. Like I told you I studied the history of Rhode Island Reds and I also interviewed 10 master breeders who lived the glory days of Reds before they died. I had four hours of phone interviews with a man whose name is Ken Bowles from New York State. If you think you know the history of Rhode Island Reds and New Hampshire’s then tell me in a good message what Ken Bowles did for not only Standard breed chickens but the commercial hatchery business in his life time.

Conclusion: There is very few true Rhode Island Reds alive today in this country there may be 5000 commercial or production birds alive right now. If you want eggs only go with these commerical hatchery birds. If you want to help preserve lost gene pools of old strains of large fowl and bantams to keep them from disappearing from this earth then join our movement of raising an old breed and try to keep it alive. For example White Face Black Spanish, Partridge Plymouth Rocks, Light Brahmas, White Leghorns, Orpingtons, Delaware’s, Polish and so many more.

I wrote an article on my other lap top computer last night called R I Reds vs New Hampshire Reds. It’s in rough draft and one day I will put it on my web site. I went step by step on how the RI Reds was developed and maybe it’s the same as the history of the RI Red and the Rose Comb Rhode Island Red i wrote years ago. The poultry business was taken over by commercial farms in the 1930s and 40s with these large long chicken houses and the ROP contest where also screwed up as ten females that where entered in a ROP contest on these so called farms where suppose to score an average of at least 90 points to be legal entrees. The R I Reds that won the contests would score about 85 points and where the beginning of the commercial strains latter produced in thousands by Monroe Babcock from New York and they had brown leghorn blood in them to get the numbers up to 275 per year. That’s what Ken Bowles told me. Who cares about how many eggs they lay? They are not part of what the founders wanted when they designed the Rhode Island Reds years ago.

I hope this helps you decide what kind of fowl you want for your home. If you have limited space and need many eggs per day for your family go with high production type Monroe Babcock 290s. You can have four or five females and have all the eggs you want.

Below is a picture of Rhode Island Reds decedents of Mr. E W Reese’s chickens that I got 23 years ago. If your red chickens look likes these you have the very rare Rhode Island Reds. If they don’t you have the common production or commercial reds which is fine.

Remember each day when you carry the feed bucket you have only one person to please and that’s you who carry that feed bucket. I am as happy as can be with the Reds pictured below as it took me over 2000 birds and 22 years to develop. My females are what I want. Will they lay 200 eggs per year? No

Long live the Standard Breed RHODE ISLAND REDS. May all of you have a great week and enjoy your chickens whatever breed they are.

Robert Blosl

Past President of Rhode Island Red Club of America.

Hall of fame member year 2000.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
As always great post Bob..

Chris

 

[spartacus_63]

Now would you like to show us how there is no breed as the production red? Oh and please don't say there not in the ASOP so there not a breed because there are a lot breed that are not in the American Standard of Perfection.


Chris

Now that one made me LOL! You condemn hatcheries for their practices yet you look to them for evidence on an argument. Another example of saying anything to further your argument. I will admit that I was not accurate in my statement and I will amend it to, there is no officially recognized breed called the Production Red.

I agree with Bob in that there are very few RIRs that have been bred to the "Standard." I have never debated that issue. I have said time after time that it is possible, and my belief, that poultrymen of old bred the birds for different markets and purpose. That does not mean that all birds of the breed RIR will follow, to the letter, the APA SOP. If that were the case, there would never have to be a cull pen.

For example, if a breeder wanted to have a bird that was at the top of the egg production, he would selectively breed for eggs. Although this may sacrifice size or color. It would not require that the breeder cross breed for these traits to change.

That is my belief and it is my goal to raise a productive, hearty, vigorous flock of RIR birds. Whether anyone thinks they contribute to the breed or not has never been my concern. If I were just interested in eggs and eggs alone, I would cross breed my birds to increase production, but it is my experience that offspring of hybrids do not produce the good results.

Although I am new to poultry, I am not new to breeding. My goals do not necessarily include saving a rare breed, at least not the RIR. I am not an expert in the field nor do I ever hope to be. I want to be good enough to achieve my goals. I do not pay my bills with my chickens. As long as the chickens can pay their own bills, I am happy. At least for now.​

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
Since hatcheries are the only ones selling the breed I figured they had to do.

Chris

 

[OkChickens]

Hatcheries sell chicks that people want for "production" or for Meat. People like me, (small amount of chickens) are looking for egg production also for meat when done or slow egg laying. These chicks are like $2 a piece verses how ever much They go for.

 

[Illia]

I have a feeling you're going in circles, Spartacus, and not understanding what you're saying. . .

You admitted there are few RIR's bred to the standard, sure (also that puts them in the category of heritage type) BUT - You still claim yours, from Murray McMurray, are up to the standard.

Let me hint you in on something. . . Murray McMurray sells THOUSANDS of Reds EVERY year, so if they really are good type, up to the standards, then true Rhode Island Reds wouldn't be so rare now would they?

McMurray is possibly the oldest hatchery around, one of the top three biggest around, and has in the past supplied its stock to other hatcheries. If it actually bred good, true Rhode Island Reds - We'd be seeing them more often, wouldn't we?

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
As always great post Bob..

Chris

 

[punky rooster]

Ok lets try to finish this.
first we are only trying to correct you not hurt your feelings please understand this.

second how do you know if your birds are cross breeds or not? how do know if your birds are mixed with leghorns do you?
we who got our birds from good breeders could ask them if we had to, and most of us can tell just by shape, color and size that our birds are purebreds.

how do you weigh your birds? are you sure it is a accurate way? yes some times hatchery birds can be good sized.
punky