RIR's and New Hampshire Reds?

[punky rooster]

feather site: they list birds like yours as a "utility red" http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Reds/BRKRIR.html
murry mcmurry:

Our "production" strain

http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/rhode_island_reds.html
their reds:

bad type and color
mother earth news

The strains of the Rhode Island Red that have been heavily selected for egg-laying are now smaller in body size, less broody, and lighter in color. These strains have been used heavily in the creation of egg-laying crosses​

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Quote:
http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/rhode_island_reds.html
their reds: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/63711_rhode_island_reds_main.jpg bad type and color
mother earth news

The strains of the Rhode Island Red that have been heavily selected for egg-laying are now smaller in body size, less broody, and lighter in color. These strains have been used heavily in the creation of egg-laying crosses
​

Yes, as both sites indicates they are all STRAINS within the Rhode Island Red breed. There are EXHIBITION Reds and there are PRODUCTION Reds but so long as they were not crossed with other breeds or varieties they are all still RHODE ISLAND REDS.

Fifteen pages of posts in this thread alone and it's still all arguing over beauty queens and working birds. Select for what qualities you want. You can have your Exhbition Reds and those of us who need something more than just good looks can have our Production Reds. They'll still both be Rhode Island Reds.

 

[spartacus_63]

Since hatcheries are the only ones selling the breed I figured they had to do.

Chris

So when a hatchery says they have pure bred RIRs they are lying, but when they say they have a breed called Production Red, they are expert witnesses. Gottcha

I have a feeling you're going in circles, Spartacus, and not understanding what you're saying. . .

I understand perfectly what I am saying. It seems to me that there are some emotional folks that are very dedicated and proud of their birds. So much so that they feel any less pretty bird or line of birds that was bred for other than looks, only takes away from their flock's appeal. Maybe I am off the mark on that, but it is my perception.

You admitted there are few RIR's bred to the standard, sure (also that puts them in the category of heritage type) BUT - You still claim yours, from Murray McMurray, are up to the standard.

I believe you have taken this out of context or are misreading what was intended. The comment that I made was that few birds are bred to the "Standard" My intent was to convey that few breeders are purely interested in hatching birds that conform to the APA SOP to the letter. The breeders that do, I would characterize as Show Breeders. That is not meant to be degrading or demeaning. I respect their goals and in the case of continuing a breed to rare form is admiral, especially in a market that does not encourage this practice. (few folks buy chickens because they are pretty)

As for my birds and my claim, I have maintained that my birds follow the APA SOP guidelines for breed. I have often stated that they would not be likely Best of Breed winners, but it is just as likely that they would not be DQ do to lack of characteristic. I have also said that I could market my birds, eggs and meat, as heritage under the definition put out by the ALBC. If this has confused anyone, I apologize for my lack of writing skills.

If it actually bred good, true Rhode Island Reds - We'd be seeing them more often, wouldn't we?

If what you mean by good and true birds equates to birds that look like Bob's and Don's, you would have a point. If good and true equates to RIRs from RIRs that produce the target number of eggs and weight and continue to breed true all the while following the SOP guidelines, I think you would be hard pressed to prove we don't.

having hatchery birds will not save the breeds

I guess it is a good thing there are folks like you Punkey who, with their detailed breeding techniques and dedications to excellence, will keep these pretty birds thriving for generations to come.

how do you weigh your birds?

LOL, seriously, I use a scale...is there an industry technique out there that I am unaware of on how to weigh birds.

 

[spartacus_63]

Fifteen pages of posts in this thread alone and it's still all arguing over beauty queens and working birds. Select for what qualities you want. You can have your Exhbition Reds and those of us who need something more than just good looks can have our Production Reds. They'll still both be Rhode Island Reds.

Amen!​

 

[Illia]

Quote:
LOL, seriously, I use a scale...is there an industry technique out there that I am unaware of on how to weigh birds.

No, really?

What we mean is what method/type of scale. There are different ways of weighing a bird, some more accurate than others.

 

[Robert Blosl]

THERE IS Standard Rhode Island Reds in Rose Comb and Single Comb

They come in large fowl and bantams sold by breeders but not by Hatcheries.

What is so hard to understand. These are not the same chickens that where breed and sold by breeders in the 1940s and 50s.

We have animal breed clubs. They are for different breeds of dogs, cats, cattle and poultry ect.

I can join the German Shepard Club of Ameica but I can tell people or sell people puppies from my dog becasue he looks like a German Shepard but his mother was a beagle mix and the father was a regester German Shepard.

If you want pets like I do in dogs I dont care if they are not pure breeds.

When it comes to chickens I want to spend my money on birds that look like standard breed birds.

If I want to look at Hatchery Chickens all I have to do is walk 400 yards west of me and see my neighbors flock of chickens he got in the mail. He is happy with them and that is all that counts. He just wants chickens to lay eggs he has no desire to preserve a breed.

However, he is a guy who goes fishing. Every thing has to be just so so. He ties flys. The fly has to look just like the fly in the books that he is trying to copy. To me I could care less. I buy a fly from the store tie it on and fish with it. I do not have the art or gift to tie super fancy flys like he does.

My point is we all have wants and needs.

There are 99 people on this thread who want hatchery stock will pay $25. plus shiping for eggs from people who got birds at first from a Hatchery and these people are happy if they hacth three or four chicks. If they are happy thats all that counts

There is 1 person out of 99 on this web site who want chickens that are breed by the standard. If you fault these poor souls for doing this have mercy on your souls.

Some one has to try to keep these rare breeds of chickens going so many are down to 25 to 50 live birds today.

There will always be hundreds of hatchery chickens years from now. But try to find the lost genes in these birds to reproduce them back to the origin they came from. It will take a life time if you are lucky. Look at the Delawares. They have to go out and cross new hampsires to barred rock male to start a new breed. The genes from what is left are gone.

Have respect to the breed and the old timers who started them years ago. We 1% are trying to do this and honor these old men such as Ken Bowles when we can. They picture below is the last picture Mr. Schilling painted of the true glory day female. She would only lay about 185 eggs in her pullet year. She would produce males and females that had good flesh on thier bodies to eat and they where nice to look at. They are a dual purpose breed. Dont confuse them with a bird that is breed for egg production.

Do any of you know who Ken Bowles was????

New Hampshire Reds what a name. bob

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:

a true RIR breeder

 

[punky rooster]

A.T. Hagan :

Yes, as both sites indicates they are all STRAINS within the Rhode Island Red breed. There are EXHIBITION Reds and there are PRODUCTION Reds but so long as they were not crossed with other breeds or varieties they are all still RHODE ISLAND REDS.

hatcheries crossed some mediterranean breed to boost egg laying that would prove the wrong type, body weight ans large flopped over combs on the females (some of mine have this)
punky​

 

[mississippifarmboy]

Gosh, this is better than watching pro wrestling on tv.

Just teasing, you guys have no idea how much I'm learning on both sides of the argument. And I can see where all are coming from. We are so lucky to have a place like BYC to learn from.

Keep fussing, and I'll continue keeping notes.

 

[punky rooster]

Quote:
I know how you feel LOL!

punky