Rooster behavior quirk or illness - please advise

[kathytales]

Walmart, huh? That might be a good job for him, as greeter.
He has definite bulge of a head that decreases sharply above his eyes. Not sure if that's how they are or if it's scar tissue. Anyway I took a strip of fabric a little wider than the width of his head folded it in half the long way, and put the rubber band inside the fold. I stuck the rubber banded end under his head bump, and tied the top with a tiny rubber band, over the longest feathers that are left. All that has happened so far is that he kicks at it and it turns on his head or sometimes comes off one side. If that happens, the hens get him if I don't catch and adjust. This has lasted a long time, much better than the glued-on one that probably gave both of us superglue poison and only lasted a week. (Also one time glued one eye shut.) Does the description make sense to you?
I like the sock idea only he would probably pester it til it came off. Can envision rooster with sock over eyes, running and banging into things, blinded. Tried to think of a way to put an elastic from the cap under the chin but chicken eyes are in the wrong place! Also he could kick it off.

When Roosty had his near-death experience my friend let him out of the cage, and then he flew to her nasty neighbors'. She said he probably didn't like coming to with a giant blowing in his beak, and when she was able to catch him again he came back home.

 

[rojororeo]

Yes, that job sounds good. My boy would get fired so quick tho! He sees a human coming and heads for the hills... but frequently forgets there is a fence between him and said hills... ouch!
I was wondering if he could do that with the sock... hence the yarmulke thoughts, but like you pointed out, those pesky eyes are in the way... I could thread it through his nose holes! lol
I get what you mean on proper turban to head attachment, though I would have to more closely examine my guy to see if I could do it. I am just floored it even comes close to staying on! That Polish head bulbousness comes in handy for something evidently! -His longest feathers left- are they crest feathers, or upper neck feathers? All my boy has of crest feathers are the ones at the front of his head... and currently those are fairly stuck together due to my stupid idea of putting pine tar on his head to prevent pecking (nothing did! grr!)... I haven't figured out a good way to undo the goo, short of putting him in the washer! I was sorta just gonna let him look special until the fall molt. then I can separate him and his stuck crest feathers will fall out, and he can start new. I might separate sooner... still thinking on specifics...
And you really glued his eye shut?! I don't feel bad for occasionally blu-koting my guy's eye then!
And if I saw a huge human-rooster standing over me blowing on me, I might jump up and run away too! Smart rooster!

 

[chooks4life]

Hello all! Reviving the thread a bit...
I was the one in it with the Polish rooster who gets his crest pecked regularly by his hens... then he started a wattle shake when he would drink. I thought it was due to the super cold weather and water freezing his comb... I am now coming back to say I was wrong.. you guys were right... I think, he has something wrong with him.
In the past few weeks he has been staggering here and there when he shakes. Doesn't ever fall to the ground, but when he does the typical rooster/chicken shake he seems to lose his balance and stagger.
Those of you familiar with these things... is this something that will get worse? I have no plans on him ever being a baby daddy, as I don't want Polish crosses. But as a simple guardian rooster just living off the man and having fun, will I have any future issues that you know of which would bring about culling?
I feel like I am noticing slightly different behavior in how he interacts which his hens as well, but not sure if I am imagining it. He seems a bit more aggressive at times, but could that also being coming into full maturity as he is right at a year old now.
Anyhoo, just felt I should give an update for informational purposes, and wanted a quick take on your guys' thoughts for his future.
Thanks!

If it's getting worse, I would consider it a degenerative neurological condition beyond a shadow of a doubt, but that's a loose term which can encompass everything from Marek's to parasitic nodules or cysts or progressive vitamin synthesis failure. Either way, something with his nerves is clearly degenerating over time. Going from my knowledge of neurological conditions, while not claiming to be any sort of expert of course, as a general rule they do deteriorate unless the cause of the deterioration stops, but in order to cause that you need to know what it is and how to treat it. I would expect it's genetic.

The aggression isn't really something you'd expect to escalate just because of approaching fuller maturity, that's possibly also genetic but also probably because he's not quite right. Animals that are more vulnerable for any reason tend to become more aggressive as a survival and breeding strategy, the excess aggression overcompensating for their shortcomings. With my roosters, the vast majority of them would settle into their adult behavior soon after puberty, and calm down, not continue to gain in aggression.

In humans St John's Wort is used for neurological imbalances and problems, which can be biochemical issues rather than physical ones. In his case I would expect something is progressively changing for the worse in what was originally a normal or near-normal brain or nervous system. We don't know if it's in his brain, it could be in his muscles, for example, a problem with distributing magnesium properly. While homeopathy is still laughed at it can work, so if you try it in homeopathic Hypericum, and if he improves, there's something achieved, lol. It has worked for others with poultry with neurological disorders. But you can give him St John's Wort in pill form too though I'd only give him a fraction of a pill intended for humans. It's the herb itself that works, delivered one way or another, with many neurological issues including depressions caused by imbalances.

The rooster with the turban is lol! Amazing that he leaves it on, he must have some idea that it's beneficial for him.

Anyway, best wishes with them. Strange that the pine tar didn't stop the pecking, but animals don't mind a taste of it. They sure do seem bent on these crested ones.

 

[rojororeo]

If it's getting worse, I would consider it a degenerative neurological condition beyond a shadow of a doubt, but that's a loose term which can encompass everything from Marek's to parasitic nodules or cysts or progressive vitamin synthesis failure. Either way, something with his nerves is clearly degenerating over time. Going from my knowledge of neurological conditions, while not claiming to be any sort of expert of course, as a general rule they do deteriorate unless the cause of the deterioration stops, but in order to cause that you need to know what it is and how to treat it. I would expect it's genetic.

The aggression isn't really something you'd expect to escalate just because of approaching fuller maturity, that's possibly also genetic but also probably because he's not quite right. Animals that are more vulnerable for any reason tend to become more aggressive as a survival and breeding strategy, the excess aggression overcompensating for their shortcomings. With my roosters, the vast majority of them would settle into their adult behavior soon after puberty, and calm down, not continue to gain in aggression.

In humans St John's Wort is used for neurological imbalances and problems, which can be biochemical issues rather than physical ones. In his case I would expect something is progressively changing for the worse in what was originally a normal or near-normal brain or nervous system. We don't know if it's in his brain, it could be in his muscles, for example, a problem with distributing magnesium properly. While homeopathy is still laughed at it can work, so if you try it in homeopathic Hypericum, and if he improves, there's something achieved, lol. It has worked for others with poultry with neurological disorders. But you can give him St John's Wort in pill form too though I'd only give him a fraction of a pill intended for humans. It's the herb itself that works, delivered one way or another, with many neurological issues including depressions caused by imbalances.

The rooster with the turban is lol! Amazing that he leaves it on, he must have some idea that it's beneficial for him.

Anyway, best wishes with them. Strange that the pine tar didn't stop the pecking, but animals don't mind a taste of it. They sure do seem bent on these crested ones.

I think it is most likely trauma induced due to pecking. As I also have a Polish hen from the same family, so therefore from the same hatchery.. she has no odd neurological issues, though she has been pecked as well, I don't think it was ever as bad, since she wasn't a young rooster previously living with a big bad adult rooster.
Isn't it odd how we never look at things like this in humans? I frequently trip on things, run into things... no one ever questions my brain or vitamin intake.. we just assume I am clumsy! Anyhoo...
I think I will watch him for a while before I cull. But he certainly will not be a baby daddy for us. Nor do I really want any babies off the Polish hen. But no worries there right now, as no one is attempting to brood anyhow.
As for the aggression, I wonder if I wasn't overreacting a bit... he hardly attempted to mate over the winter, which is normal I assume. And now that it is getting warmer and such he is most certainly more randy than he was! I think he is just being a bit too excited. It drives me nuts that as everyone comes out of the coop in the mornings, he likes to go around chasing a select few hens to mate, and just seems a bit overeager in the process of it. Does that sound aggressive or normal? When I look at it as mating, it seems more normal. He doesn't do anything different aside from that. He also is not any more aggressive towards humans, he will still nearly kill himself to get away from me when I run him off.
Pine tar- I think it didn't work because they live under a pine tree? But then they also pecked off the mechanic's grease as well, and they aren't exactly mechanics! I think it has become a major habit now! At least with the Polish hen- she came to me just as bare-headed, and she only has a small spot now... and that is because the brat keeps scratching her ponytails out, and then gets pecked.
Thanks for the info!! It is all very helpful

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

I posted earlier, but figured I'd pop back in since I noticed there were new posts

My Silkie rooster with the head wobble does just fine as a flock guardian. Not only that, but he even manages to mate the girls. I've hatched quite a few eggs from him and not a single problem (I know you don't want to hatch from yours, just saying). I'm impressed he manages as well as he does, but he's never gotten any worse.

I didn't read back through the thread and I can't remember if this has been addressed, but can you separate him? Put him with the Polish hen until both of their crests have grown back in and then let them back out with the others (a dog kennel or temp wire cage in the coop would still allow them to be a part of the flock). When my Polish rooster lost his crest, that's what I did. Once the feathers came back in, everyone left him alone. I didn't keep him long, he was an odd bird. He didn't have any wobble issues, but he was the biggest sissy ever and would run into things trying to get away from any perceived danger (usually me). Have you tried vitamins? They may not cure his problem, but they could lessen it some.
Good luck!

 

[rojororeo]

I posted earlier, but figured I'd pop back in since I noticed there were new posts

My Silkie rooster with the head wobble does just fine as a flock guardian. Not only that, but he even manages to mate the girls. I've hatched quite a few eggs from him and not a single problem (I know you don't want to hatch from yours, just saying). I'm impressed he manages as well as he does, but he's never gotten any worse.

I didn't read back through the thread and I can't remember if this has been addressed, but can you separate him? Put him with the Polish hen until both of their crests have grown back in and then let them back out with the others (a dog kennel or temp wire cage in the coop would still allow them to be a part of the flock). When my Polish rooster lost his crest, that's what I did. Once the feathers came back in, everyone left him alone. I didn't keep him long, he was an odd bird. He didn't have any wobble issues, but he was the biggest sissy ever and would run into things trying to get away from any perceived danger (usually me). Have you tried vitamins? They may not cure his problem, but they could lessen it some.
Good luck!

I can separate him now, I was waiting for the weather to warm up, since it would just be a dog crate, placed either in a dark stall away from the flock, or in the run with the flockmates. I could also put the crate on the floor inside the coop at night so they are both closer.
He isn't the most manly rooster I know. But then he is the only one I know! lol He does run from me like I am going to chop off his head when he sees me coming... but isn't he supposed to do that? He does protect his girls from things he sees- he yells when there are raptors, that sorta thing. He tries to stand up to our cats, but the cats are fairly stubborn, so he isn't quite sure what to do with them lol On occasion he does run them off.
I figure so far, I have no need for a 'better' rooster, and he is 'human benign' in that he doesn't try to hurt humans, so he is a-okay in my book. I do enjoy hearing his crows, he does help protect, and find food for his girls. And he isn't horribly expensive to feed. So I think he will stay for now. I am still fearful of those huge honkin' roosters too! So he is perfect for my chicken newbie-ness Thanks!

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

I would pull him and his Polish hen to a kennel in the coop. The other chickens will be in and out all day, so they'll still be able to keep in touch with them (which means no reintegration). A buddy will give him someone to snuggle with and you mentioned she had a bald spot as well. You could feed them some game bird or meat bird feed to give them a protein boost and help those feathers grow back quicker.

My rooster isn't perfect either, but he's good to his girls and doesn't mess with the people. No need to fix what isn't broken

 

[chooks4life]

Quote: It's good she shows no symptoms but even the worst genetic disorders often don't show in all family members, even when they're inbred. So I wouldn't discount it entirely. But if you're not planning to breed him, no worries about it. I'd bet that even if it was genetic, you could inbreed him with his own offspring, and his own grandchildren, and still get some normal birds.

As for the pecking being possibly not as bad just based on the genders involved, there are no gender differences there when you're talking about actual attacks as opposed to pecking order reinforcement. Hens aren't known for being gentler in that way.

Quote: Some of us do look at things like this in humans. Some don't. I am one of those who does, but health is one of those things which frightens most people, so it's just better not discussed unless talking about animals strictly in the majority of cases, lol.

The vast majority of health issues and the treatments for them that we discuss with chickens and other animals apply directly, or almost identically, to humans as well. There are more similarities than differences, generally speaking.

A little while back a teenager was posting on this site about a rooster of his, and mentioned he was unable to recall what he'd done for the same problem last year, just as a passing mention, but the way he said it reminded me of some similar circumstances with a family member, so I mentioned this and recommended he consider the memory loss something to address, not leave be. (Memory loss like his tends to progress unless the cause is addressed and it's often quite easily fixed especially in young and otherwise healthy people). I mentioned a few harmless herbs proven to improve memory and suggested he get himself checked out by a GP.

Others in that thread immediately condemned my suggestions and told me off because apparently young people simply do not suffer from health issues (LOL) and shouldn't even suffer the suggestion of the possibility. What sort of irresponsible fear-mongerer was I, someone asked.

Anyway, long story short, the kid PM'd me and we discussed it, and he did indeed have something seriously wrong with him, and even before he mentioned his inability to recall events a year past, he had been having MRIs etc because his doctors knew something was badly wrong but couldn't find out what exactly. His memory loss and migraines were so bad that he was actually expecting to die soon, and this was even before I ever replied to his thread.

The censure I received from a few other forum members for suggesting he address the memory issues, and not consider them normal for his age, is a good example of the general response when trying to find the causes behind health faults in people. Hence my reason for rarely discussing that sort of thing. (Some memory loss is normal enough for people to experience at different stages, for different reasons, but the specifics of his case were red flags, you will never hear of those specifics without it being indicative of something seriously wrong, so I spoke up about it, otherwise I would have remained silent on it like usual concerning human health).

Quote: The chasing is a little weird but it doesn't necessarily mean he's aggressive. It is standard behavior for an insecure rooster. A secure male has females willing to mate with him and is calm around them; he has no need to chase. His insecurity could be because he's been attacked, or because he has some underlying weakness he's aware of, or because he's not got the full complement of instincts. Or it could just be because he's still young.

Hens who were raised without roosters can be difficult companions for roosters, too, and the mating interactions can be constantly stressful and discordant in such situations; this is one form of 'normal' you see in many farmyards which is actually somewhat stressful for both parties, but many people think it's just the natural state of things. It's not. In the wild you don't see that sort of freakout every time they mate; this is a byproduct of human intervention. The issue there is probably the breed of hens having been reared without males for generations, having lost the instincts regarding a male's social role, and retaining only the vaguest mating instincts (enough to enable mating but not necessarily any positive perceptions of it). So, as you've probably noticed, they squat and move their rump feathers out of the way to mate, cooperate physically, but complain bitterly the whole time. A hen who doesn't want to mate will simply not move her feathers out of the way and get into position, and the rooster cannot force it, despite appearances; he doesn't have a penis and if she doesn't get into position, all he can do is sit on her back fruitlessly. Many people think they're seeing something like rape because of the complaining so many hens do, but it's just semi-instinctive birds making a hash of what is simple for birds with clearer instincts. Soundly instinctive birds don't have these problems.

A breakdown of natural communication, caused by people breaking down their natural social units and raising them in isolation from the natural family structure, results in weak or defective instincts over generations and higher chances of aggression and abnormal behavior, as well as neuroses. If a bird's most recent ancestors were always separated by gender, and only ever brought together for very brief periods to mate, and then separated again, then over a short time the calmer, friendlier social instincts are replaced by frenzied, frustrated, often highly aggressive mating behaviors. Anyone who doubts the possibility of that simple instinct modification can experiment with their own birds, it breeds in and out fairly quickly.

Some hens never do more than tolerate mating. Hens with good instincts are active participants and will only refuse sub-par or genetically badly matched roosters, or complain if he's clumsy or rough, not complain every time and run away as a rule, and scream blue murder during mating.

A rooster with good instincts will understand how to woo hens and unless something's seriously wrong with him and/or the hens, he won't have to chase them, they will come to him. Many people think animals have infallible instincts but we've altered many of them, even entirely bred some of them out of some individuals and families and breeds.

Aaaaaaanyway.... Best wishes with your flock.

 

[rojororeo]

I would pull him and his Polish hen to a kennel in the coop. The other chickens will be in and out all day, so they'll still be able to keep in touch with them (which means no reintegration). A buddy will give him someone to snuggle with and you mentioned she had a bald spot as well. You could feed them some game bird or meat bird feed to give them a protein boost and help those feathers grow back quicker.

My rooster isn't perfect either, but he's good to his girls and doesn't mess with the people. No need to fix what isn't broken

Yep. This is exactly what I plan to do as soon as I figure out the crate situation. I have a massive dog crate that will work perfectly... except it is currently being borrowed by a friend to potty train their puppy.. so if I can't get it or another soon, guess it will have to wait a bit! And I agree that he gets to stay as long as he is healthy enough for himself. Oddly, I haven't seen him staggering much lately in the past few days... maybe he got into the bubbly over the weekend?! lol Had a cold?!

 

[rojororeo]

It's good she shows no symptoms but even the worst genetic disorders often don't show in all family members, even when they're inbred. So I wouldn't discount it entirely. But if you're not planning to breed him, no worries about it. I'd bet that even if it was genetic, you could inbreed him with his own offspring, and his own grandchildren, and still get some normal birds.

As for the pecking being possibly not as bad just based on the genders involved, there are no gender differences there when you're talking about actual attacks as opposed to pecking order reinforcement. Hens aren't known for being gentler in that way.

Some of us do look at things like this in humans. Some don't. I am one of those who does, but health is one of those things which frightens most people, so it's just better not discussed unless talking about animals strictly in the majority of cases, lol.

The vast majority of health issues and the treatments for them that we discuss with chickens and other animals apply directly, or almost identically, to humans as well. There are more similarities than differences, generally speaking.

A little while back a teenager was posting on this site about a rooster of his, and mentioned he was unable to recall what he'd done for the same problem last year, just as a passing mention, but the way he said it reminded me of some similar circumstances with a family member, so I mentioned this and recommended he consider the memory loss something to address, not leave be. (Memory loss like his tends to progress unless the cause is addressed and it's often quite easily fixed especially in young and otherwise healthy people). I mentioned a few harmless herbs proven to improve memory and suggested he get himself checked out by a GP.

Others in that thread immediately condemned my suggestions and told me off because apparently young people simply do not suffer from health issues (LOL) and shouldn't even suffer the suggestion of the possibility. What sort of irresponsible fear-mongerer was I, someone asked.

Anyway, long story short, the kid PM'd me and we discussed it, and he did indeed have something seriously wrong with him, and even before he mentioned his inability to recall events a year past, he had been having MRIs etc because his doctors knew something was badly wrong but couldn't find out what exactly. His memory loss and migraines were so bad that he was actually expecting to die soon, and this was even before I ever replied to his thread.

The censure I received from a few other forum members for suggesting he address the memory issues, and not consider them normal for his age, is a good example of the general response when trying to find the causes behind health faults in people. Hence my reason for rarely discussing that sort of thing. (Some memory loss is normal enough for people to experience at different stages, for different reasons, but the specifics of his case were red flags, you will never hear of those specifics without it being indicative of something seriously wrong, so I spoke up about it, otherwise I would have remained silent on it like usual concerning human health).

The chasing is a little weird but it doesn't necessarily mean he's aggressive. It is standard behavior for an insecure rooster. A secure male has females willing to mate with him and is calm around them; he has no need to chase. His insecurity could be because he's been attacked, or because he has some underlying weakness he's aware of, or because he's not got the full complement of instincts. Or it could just be because he's still young.

Hens who were raised without roosters can be difficult companions for roosters, too, and the mating interactions can be constantly stressful and discordant in such situations; this is one form of 'normal' you see in many farmyards which is actually somewhat stressful for both parties, but many people think it's just the natural state of things. It's not. In the wild you don't see that sort of freakout every time they mate; this is a byproduct of human intervention. The issue there is probably the breed of hens having been reared without males for generations, having lost the instincts regarding a male's social role, and retaining only the vaguest mating instincts (enough to enable mating but not necessarily any positive perceptions of it). So, as you've probably noticed, they squat and move their rump feathers out of the way to mate, cooperate physically, but complain bitterly the whole time. A hen who doesn't want to mate will simply not move her feathers out of the way and get into position, and the rooster cannot force it, despite appearances; he doesn't have a penis and if she doesn't get into position, all he can do is sit on her back fruitlessly. Many people think they're seeing something like rape because of the complaining so many hens do, but it's just semi-instinctive birds making a hash of what is simple for birds with clearer instincts. Soundly instinctive birds don't have these problems.

A breakdown of natural communication, caused by people breaking down their natural social units and raising them in isolation from the natural family structure, results in weak or defective instincts over generations and higher chances of aggression and abnormal behavior, as well as neuroses. If a bird's most recent ancestors were always separated by gender, and only ever brought together for very brief periods to mate, and then separated again, then over a short time the calmer, friendlier social instincts are replaced by frenzied, frustrated, often highly aggressive mating behaviors. Anyone who doubts the possibility of that simple instinct modification can experiment with their own birds, it breeds in and out fairly quickly.

Some hens never do more than tolerate mating. Hens with good instincts are active participants and will only refuse sub-par or genetically badly matched roosters, or complain if he's clumsy or rough, not complain every time and run away as a rule, and scream blue murder during mating.

A rooster with good instincts will understand how to woo hens and unless something's seriously wrong with him and/or the hens, he won't have to chase them, they will come to him. Many people think animals have infallible instincts but we've altered many of them, even entirely bred some of them out of some individuals and families and breeds.

Aaaaaaanyway.... Best wishes with your flock.

I can always count on you for great answers!
As for looking for things like this in humans.. I agree it does bring about feelings that frequently get those of us who voice a minority thought or opinion, we get bashed usually... so I don't frequently go there on public forums. But I definitely hear you.
And kudos to you for realizing something was wrong with that young man... Hopefully he has improved now.. hopefully.

Interesting the raising with a rooster aspects... typically it is the set of hens that were without a rooster for their entire lives of several years, until I got them last summer- those are the ones who run and scream like they are gonna die. The ones that are all the same ~1 year in age, from the same brood group as the rooster, they were raised with a set of older hens and a rooster from the day they were bought/brooded.... those hens don't typically resist him too much, nor do they mumble and groan. I am sure it is because they saw the example of the older hens and rooster from the day they got out of the brooder and to them it is more normal. Good to know. I plan to always have a rooster, because he is fun to listen to and watch, and he does serve the purpose of watching for predators, even if he is super scared of me, he does his job and doesn't eat much... so maybe we can break that cycle at my house.
I just think it is funny that the 1st thing on his mind when he gets out of the coop is to find a hen to mate! lol Maybe it will be more balanced as the weather gets nice, and he is just a bit more wake-up randy with the weather and season changing lol
I would certainly say he is insecure though... what with having his head constantly pecked at, not being able to see fully out the sides (he has the front of his crest)... As soon as I get his feathers grown in properly, I plan to trim them for good vision.
Anyhoo- thank you again so much for a great reply!
Oddly enough... the rooster seems to be less staggering in the past few days... maybe he got into the alcohol over the weekend!? I can't quite figure that one out...