Rooster Only Flock

[EdnaAndEdith]

Hello,

I have three roosters and in the fall the two younger ones (about a year old) attacked our old, disabled rooster. We separated them into a separate barn and decided to create a rooster only flock to solve our problem.

The two young ones, Moe and Murphy, had two pretty significant squabbles at first that were about a month apart. They were both equally bloody and swollen faces and one had a small laceration on his head that ended up healing well. I chalked these two initial fights up to figuring out how to live in their own space and who was in charge. They have been fine since.

I have seen no signs of stress and they seem to love each other. Just the other night was laughing to myself at how they seem to be best buds. Dust baths together and sleeping snuggled up together and chirping and purring when they see me and trying to show love to me. (Saying a lot since they were very unsocialized when we rescued them)

But tonight I go to the pen to say goodnight and shut the door and they are both bloody from head to toe. Swollen faces and Murphy’s area around his eye looks like he’s been decked in the face. He didn’t even get on the roost but was instead sleeping by the nightlight I keep in there. It seems to be some limping and mostly superficial wounds. I didn’t see anything serious but I’m seriously concerned that it’s now fight number 4 in the course of 5 months. (1st one with the main rooster, two at initial separation, and now another).

I’m so sad. The last couple of days I was making mental notes of how successful I had been at keeping a rooster only flock happy and hoping that in the future I could rescue more “unwanted” roosters and grow my little male flock. The ability to keep a rooster only flock successfully was a huge matter of pride and happiness for me as I firmly believe rescue is the only proper way to help animals.

The environment seems to be the best that I can make it. They have a 25x25 ft barn all to themselves, tons of vertical space and rafters and roosts added, nice warm pine shavings that are clean and dry, a tub of sand to dust bathe in, access during the day to a fenced, enclosed run that is about 12x12’, a swing, a night light. They don’t really like treats or human foods except blueberries so I try to give them those at least once a week. They have one feeder and two waters, items scattered to block visuals if they do get in disagreements and a stuffed animal that I leave in there should they feel the need to get any frustrations out on something (I’ve never seen it touched). The female flock with our old man have free range rights to the pasture outside their pen but only very rarely wonder far enough to be within view of the boys. (They are on opposite ends of the pasture)

The only thing I can rationalize is the change of season and maybe the girls wondered farther than usual making it so they felt frustrated and turned on each other. But I have no evidence of that.

I wouldn’t know what to use to block their view that would be both inexpensive and not terribly ugly.

Now I feel super defeated and unsure how I can help them. If I split them up I feel like they will just fight that much more when I reintroduce them and if I keep them together I’m afraid they will keep attacking each other and live in fear. I’m a strong advocate that no animal should have to live in fear in any preventable situation.

Any advice? What am I doing wrong? I don’t want to see them hurt… but I also don’t want to give them away only to see them end up dead on someone’s dinner plate. Is living in a home with the situation above and fighting still better than death?? I think so. But I want to make it so they are really enjoying life, not just existing.

Am I better off going and adopting a ton of female chickens and giving them a large enough flock to balance things out or am I better off giving the boys another chance?

I dread what I will wake up to tomorrow. I hope they don’t continue to fight in the morning.

Thanks in advance for any advice or expertise you may have.

 

[sourland]

You have done nothing wrong. Roosters' hormone level, same as hens. is increased during increasing daylight period. It's the testosterone increase that is causing the problems.

 

[EdnaAndEdith]

Are you familiar with the natural life cycle of Red Junglefowl? In nature it's one mature male with several or more females. When the young males hit puberty they leave the flock or the broodcock will kill them.
The young males then exist on the far periphery of the main flock until they mature enough to the point where they can challenge the broodcock. Then they either defeat him and take his throne, driving him away to die, or they're again banished

When you make an all-male flock you're artificially simulating a flock of immature outcasts. It can't be good for their health

I would recommend limiting yourself to only keeping the amount of roosters that can live happy and natural lives. This is one of the instances where I think death would be more merciful than life

I appreciate your alternative viewpoint. Thank you for sharing.

I would like to suggest that while those “outcasts” are growing and developing in their own group (away from hens) they form brotherhoods and bonds with each other in the same way that any other flock creature does. They establish their own “top rooster” and it is that male that challenges the head of the brood. The rest of the males are surviving in the company of other males that they bond with.

It isn’t unusual for animals of other flock varieties to form social groups outside of the main group and remain quite content not being “on top”. Understandably, they would compete for an opportunity to have their own flock, but if any awareness of the availability of hens is out of their perception, there would be nothing to compete over except flock position (which has been clearly established now). I believe my error was not having a visual barrier to the pasture where the females were. Which instantly added “something to fight for” on the first sunny afternoon of the year when the girls wandered too far. I have temporarily remedied that problem and have a permanent solution on order.

We do have to recognize and appreciate the uniqueness of this situation, based on my observation of the two boys in question (even after this fight), they seem happier together than they do apart and enjoy one another’s company. I’m a registered veterinary technician and have worked in the veterinary world for over 11 years. I’ve personally humanely euthanized thousands of all kinds of creatures. Certainly there is a time and a place for that. But we also owe it to them to read their own body language and determine the individual quality of life. When I see the boys snuggled up together at bed time or feeding each other treats back and forth or dust bathing together or simply enjoying each others company, I find it hard to base my end of life decisions on “ancestors” habits. They have some of their ancestors traits, we can’t argue that. But they are individuals as well. Much in the way that I am similar to my mother, and my grandmother, but I am neither of them and what makes me happy is very different from what makes my mother or grandmother happy.

I feel I owe it to these boys to try to rectify the environmental influences and restore them to their level of harmony in their own way. Even if it is “unnatural”. If the fights continue and there is no hope for peace, then I would build more space and put them into individual flocks. But keep in mind, adding addition flock members increases the risk involved: more lives to care for, more vet bills, more chance of getting yet another rooster complicating things, more eggs to process and deal with, increased risk of disease. I believe it is more responsible for me to make things work with the flock I have first.

Again, I really do appreciate your insights. This is how we all learn from each other and why we ask for each other’s view points. Different perspectives can help us grow to appreciate the species and the unique needs they have.

 

[WoDia]

One of my flocks is rooster-only (8 roosters and 2 male turkeys). It doesn’t work for everyone. In my situation, I monitor mine a lot for any signs of bullying… and, I am prepared to separate one when necessary. I have a temporary rooster jail ready for when I need to do that. My boys sometimes do squabble. No blood gets drawn, but one will need to be separated until he calms down. I also provide lots of hiding places and multiple food and water stations. All of mine were hatched and raised together by me. I choose to keep any males every single time I decide to fire the incubators up. It’s a lot of trial and error with a rooster-only flock, but you’ll ultimately figure out what works best for you. Don’t be discouraged. It CAN be done. Just be prepared to keep them separated at any given time.

 

[azygous]

First, a disclaimer that I have not read beyond the first page of this thread. So I won't know if I am duplicating any suggestions.

Next, I do have lots of experience keeping multiple roosters, and have come to notice the younger ones seem to have more of a penchant for testing rank. Currently, I have two aging roosters, seven and eight years old. When they were young, the squabbles were much more frequent than they are now. And since the younger one challenged the rank of the older one two summers ago, reversing the roles, there have been no more fights. But they had a built in rank from the beginning as the younger one was introduced to the older one as a young chick. Cockerels of the same age will not have this built in governor.

My guess at what's going on with your two young boys is they each are vying for the role of head roo in view of having neutralized the older rooster. Sometimes it takes time for them to agree on which role they will each assume. And springtime hormones do play an important role. I would try to be patient and let them try to work this out between them. Yes, it will likely result in some injuries. Keep a close eye on them.

Years ago when I first joined BYC, there was a young man here who lived in Olympia WA and ran a rooster rescue in a homeless encampment. He had his own tent and another tent for about twenty roosters. He was also a chicken psychologist, and wrote extensively on rooster behavior. I learned a lot from him. His writings are probably still out there.

Having upwards of two dozen roosters in close quarters required that the roosters learn to get along. He was an expert at training and disciplining them. Most of them responded quickly and got with the program just fine. But occasionally, someone would bring him a rooster to join his flock that felt compelled to pick fights with another roo. When all else failed to convince the two birds to make peace, he would install them in a crate together. Not a large crate, but one where they were forced to be in constant contact with each other.

You would think that this would be a recipe for disaster, that it would turn into a blender of blood and feathers. But the result was just the opposite. More than learning to make peace and tolerate one another, they established a close bond due to the intense proximity. The length of time required to do this varied from a couple of days to a week. But the result was that they became inseparable.

Something similar has been reported by other members when they have a hen that requires intense one on one treatment for serious illness. This is often a hen that refused to have anything to do with their human flock keeper prior to the illness. After the intense interaction that day to day treatment requires, the hen will have bonded so completely with the human that they completely changed from then on to being the biggest fan of that human. So it must be a trait chickens have, or at least some of them.

If your boys continue to have an unresolved agreement on how they will handle their relationship, you might try crating them together and see what happens.

Here is a link to the writings of that Olympia rooster rescue guy. He's made a lot of fascinating videos, as well. http://olychickenguy.blogspot.com/

 

[triciayoung]

Human males do the same in prison. The only question I raise is whether it's ethical or not to keep animals in the equivalent of a human prison

Humans commit crimes before they're sentenced to do time in a box, with other males, away from the vision of females. This is universally understood as a punishment for commiting evil

First, I would like to ask if it is ethical for the hatching industry to kill 2 million baby boy chicks a DAY, by throwing the into a grinder alive - just because they are boys. This is not hyperbole - it is a fact.

Specific to your post - any chicken, male or female for most on this site are kept "captive". And those of us that do not free range at all, do so to protect our chickens from predation. My experience with roosters is that they have two modes 1.) Roosters with a job to do; protector, provider and mate for/with hens and 2.) Away from hens, pets with intelligence, empathy and the ability to have relationships with people and other roosters - like a dog.

I will tell you that my rooster that is with his hens in his flock is no happier than my roosters that are in their rooster only flock. My roosters in the rooster only flock come out in the main run when I put the hens away and we play together and they get walnuts or pecans, and we talk, and then I sing to them when they go to bed. They are very respected and treated well. Therefore, you will never convince me they are better off dead.

 

[EdnaAndEdith]

Human males do the same in prison. The only question I raise is whether it's ethical or not to keep animals in the equivalent of a human prison

Humans commit crimes before they're sentenced to do time in a box, with other males, away from the vision of females. This is universally understood as a punishment for commiting evil

In your example above, what “evil” did the young roosters commit in order to be outcast in the first place? Your example above is a natural environment without prisons or boxes.

There are many celibate people who live perfectly happy lives. I don’t see this as unethical as long as the being is content with their life the way it is.

Prisoners would probably argue that living in prison is better than death… after all, there are TVs and tablets and games and companions and at least some forms of happiness in their life.

Plus, the roosters are not in “jail”. The only form of life enjoyment they are missing out on is reproduction. They have every other opportunity to express their needs and desires in a very natural way.

There are plenty of female only flocks in the world that many would agree are perfectly happy without a rooster around at all.

 

[Cyan the chicken parent]

Hello,

I have three roosters and in the fall the two younger ones (about a year old) attacked our old, disabled rooster. We separated them into a separate barn and decided to create a rooster only flock to solve our problem.

The two young ones, Moe and Murphy, had two pretty significant squabbles at first that were about a month apart. They were both equally bloody and swollen faces and one had a small laceration on his head that ended up healing well. I chalked these two initial fights up to figuring out how to live in their own space and who was in charge. They have been fine since.

I have seen no signs of stress and they seem to love each other. Just the other night was laughing to myself at how they seem to be best buds. Dust baths together and sleeping snuggled up together and chirping and purring when they see me and trying to show love to me. (Saying a lot since they were very unsocialized when we rescued them)

But tonight I go to the pen to say goodnight and shut the door and they are both bloody from head to toe. Swollen faces and Murphy’s area around his eye looks like he’s been decked in the face. He didn’t even get on the roost but was instead sleeping by the nightlight I keep in there. It seems to be some limping and mostly superficial wounds. I didn’t see anything serious but I’m seriously concerned that it’s now fight number 4 in the course of 5 months. (1st one with the main rooster, two at initial separation, and now another).

I’m so sad. The last couple of days I was making mental notes of how successful I had been at keeping a rooster only flock happy and hoping that in the future I could rescue more “unwanted” roosters and grow my little male flock. The ability to keep a rooster only flock successfully was a huge matter of pride and happiness for me as I firmly believe rescue is the only proper way to help animals.

The environment seems to be the best that I can make it. They have a 25x25 ft barn all to themselves, tons of vertical space and rafters and roosts added, nice warm pine shavings that are clean and dry, a tub of sand to dust bathe in, access during the day to a fenced, enclosed run that is about 12x12’, a swing, a night light. They don’t really like treats or human foods except blueberries so I try to give them those at least once a week. They have one feeder and two waters, items scattered to block visuals if they do get in disagreements and a stuffed animal that I leave in there should they feel the need to get any frustrations out on something (I’ve never seen it touched). The female flock with our old man have free range rights to the pasture outside their pen but only very rarely wonder far enough to be within view of the boys. (They are on opposite ends of the pasture)

The only thing I can rationalize is the change of season and maybe the girls wondered farther than usual making it so they felt frustrated and turned on each other. But I have no evidence of that.

I wouldn’t know what to use to block their view that would be both inexpensive and not terribly ugly.

Now I feel super defeated and unsure how I can help them. If I split them up I feel like they will just fight that much more when I reintroduce them and if I keep them together I’m afraid they will keep attacking each other and live in fear. I’m a strong advocate that no animal should have to live in fear in any preventable situation.

Any advice? What am I doing wrong? I don’t want to see them hurt… but I also don’t want to give them away only to see them end up dead on someone’s dinner plate. Is living in a home with the situation above and fighting still better than death?? I think so. But I want to make it so they are really enjoying life, not just existing.

Am I better off going and adopting a ton of female chickens and giving them a large enough flock to balance things out or am I better off giving the boys another chance?

I dread what I will wake up to tomorrow. I hope they don’t continue to fight in the morning.

Thanks in advance for any advice or expertise you may have.

Hi there! I don’t have experience with a rooster only flock but it’s a bit of a dream to have a “bachelor pen” of sorts because I have a soft spot for Roos. I DO have experience with roosters a fair amount and sometimes boys get agressive in the spring time. I noticed it with my latest young roo Jose. He’s separated from the hens and isn’t very peckish but has become OBCESSED with dancing in front of the ladies pen. This has only happened recently as we’re coming close to spring. I experienced it with his father that he’s pretty mellow but once winter ends the hormones fire up and he’s desperate to procreate and make a ton of babies. He only became successful last summer- hence the introduction of Jose and his sister Miranda. The father Blanche is no longer with us unfortunately but was such a sweet bird. I’m sure yours are two and from what I hear they are BESTIES for the most part. They are just going through a horny epoch and May need some separation until they cool their heads. I’ve seen others successfully have bachelor pens and I’m sure yours will do quite well with some time.

 

[EdnaAndEdith]

 

[No Coop No Problem]

Are you familiar with the natural life cycle of Red Junglefowl? In nature it's one mature male with several or more females. When the young males hit puberty they leave the flock or the broodcock will kill them.
The young males then exist on the far periphery of the main flock until they mature enough to the point where they can challenge the broodcock. Then they either defeat him and take his throne, driving him away to die, or they're again banished

When you make an all-male flock you're artificially simulating a flock of immature outcasts. It can't be good for their health

I would recommend limiting yourself to only keeping the amount of roosters that can live happy and natural lives. This is one of the instances where I think death would be more merciful than life