Rose growers thread!

[galanie]

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Do post again though! Lots of great information there! I hated to repeat everything you said because it would make this one so long but folks, scroll up and read

 

[AquaEyes]

Here's a site that talks a lot about garden roses, and explains the difference between own-root and grafted:

http://paulzimmermanroses.com/

There is also a forum there. It seems somewhat new, but Paul Zimmerman has been "in" roses for a while now.

Also check out Paul Barden's page describing some of the roses he grows:

http://www.rdrop.com/~paul/site_index.html


The roses I bought were all "band-size" rooted cuttings. This page from Vintage Gardens explains what the band-size is. The grafted plants you buy as bare-root are about 2-3 years old, as opposed to the 9-month old band-size plants. So they are tinier when you get them, but generally a little cheaper than bare-root grafted plants. And there is a much greater selection available as rooted cuttings compared to grafted plants. What I did was get a sleeve of plastic nursery pots in the 5-gallon size, and made my own mix of potting soil to fill them -- 3 parts bagged Peters topsoil, 3 parts peat moss, 2 parts composted cow manure, 1 part shredded cedar mulch, and a cup each of bonemeal and Rosetone mixed into each pot. I kept them in full sun, kept them watered, and they tripled in size the first season. I planted them out in late August, and so far, in Buffalo's zone 6, they've all survived the winter and are sprouting growth. They're still small, but by the end of this season, they'll be the same size as bare-root plants, or larger.

If you live in cold-winter areas (zone 6 or lower), look into some of the old European once-blooming antique classes, such as Albas, Damasks, Centifolias, Gallicas and Mosses. For repeat-blooming, there are Bourbons, Portlands and Hybrid Perpetuals. But even these repeat-blooming roses usually have a spring flush, a summer lull, and a fall flush.

If you live in mild- to no-winter areas (zone 8 or higher), you should look into the Chinas, Teas, Noisettes and Tea-Noisettes. In zones 9 and above, you will have a hard time with the Albas, Centifolias, Gallicas and Mosses because they usually require a winter dormancy that's more than your region can provide. Some Damasks will do OK, though.

If you're in zones 7 and 8, you are in rose heaven, as it's not too cold for most of the Chinas and Teas, and just cold enough for the Albas, Gallicas, Centifolias and Mosses.

Give the antiques a try. Many have been grown for a few hundred years, before there were pesticides and fungicides, and have stood the test of time. Some were rediscovered in old abandoned gardens after having been presumed lost, growing for who knows how long without any assistance from a gardener.

 

[galanie]

I won't have anything but Old Roses. I never wanted to grow roses after watching what all my mother went through to have nice show roses when I was little (1950's-60's) but once she started growing old roses I started getting interested. If you live in Texas and want to be involved in finding these old varieties, contact the Texas Rose Rustlers (texasroserustlers.com).

I have an old rose on the back fence that I finally remembered is a "Cherokee rose," it is a climber that blooms only in the spring, a pretty single yellow, huge nasty thorns and will take over the world. Looks very much like The Mermaid but it thrives here much better than Mermaid does. Well, now I have a great use for it.

Behind my house, a fella runs a landscaping business. That's fine, I don't care, but his helpers cannot stop themselves from looking over at what I'm doing and it makes me crazy. I want to be left alone. Add to that the fact that they do not keep their chain link fence in good condition. But this fence has that silly rose on it. The darned thing was growing up into the trees that grew due to his lackadaisical attitude toward his own landscaping. So..

BINGO. I got a chain saw with a pole attached and started trimming the hell out of both rose and trees. Now there is enough sunlight reaching the base of the thing for it to grow where I want it... On the fence! This was back in February. I chopped that rose drastically. I left the big canes that were limber enough to bend about 8 feet tall but the rest got hacked off unmercifully at fence level. The rose has been there for more than 20 years so I was sure I wasn't killing it.

Well, I wasn't. Now I am going out every few days with some soft cloth or panty hose ties and training it and it's looking great! It's filling in the fence and arches of it are growing over the top of the fence, effectively making a screen that they won't touch. These guys have had plenty run-ins with that rose and the rose won every round. They tried hacking it back years ago and it responded by growing even more. They won't get close to it because of it's thorns.

So now I am successfully growing a privacy screen that is so far about 8 feet tall and 14 feet long. HAHAHA Rose to the rescue!

 

[AquaEyes]

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That's great! Now that you're training it horizontally, you'll get more flowers. When a rose cane grows straight up, it tends to flower only at the tip, because plant hormones flow up to the bud and basically say "bloom here." If you bend the canes to between 45 degrees and flat horizontal, what will happen is that laterals (small side canes) will sprout and grow up, and from each lateral will be a bunch of flowers. If you're training a rose as a climber, you don't want to let it grow straight up. Instead, wrap them like the red and white stripes on an old barber shop post, or zig-zag them at 45 degrees or more so the canes will form more laterals.

When it comes time to prune, you just tip back the laterals and leave the main canes alone. If you have a once-bloomer like Cherokee Rose, you prune only just after flowering, and then let it grow back during the rest of the season -- that is, if you even want to prune it. Once-bloomers bloom on old wood, and if you cut it back in the spring before it blooms, you'll be reducing or eliminating the number of flowers it makes. Repeat-bloomers bloom on old and new wood, so if you prune before they flower you'll still get flowers. Then you can prune again in early summer after the first flush. Continual-bloomers can be cut back pretty much any time, but don't prune any rose in the fall if you have very cold winters. The rose will start to make new growth which won't have time to harden off before frost, and you'll end up with a lot of dead wood in the spring.

If you're ever looking for another great rose to grow along a fence, check out Darlow's Enigma . It also has masses of single white flowers and is very fragrant, but it blooms repeatedly. It can be a big self-supporting shrub in full sun, but in partial shade, it can climb trees.



ETA -- And if you are fine with a big once-blooming rose to cover more of the fence, there are lots of other ramblers out there.

 

[juliette2009]

Quote:
That's great! Now that you're training it horizontally, you'll get more flowers. When a rose cane grows straight up, it tends to flower only at the tip, because plant hormones flow up to the bud and basically say "bloom here." If you bend the canes to between 45 degrees and flat horizontal, what will happen is that laterals (small side canes) will sprout and grow up, and from each lateral will be a bunch of flowers. If you're training a rose as a climber, you don't want to let it grow straight up. Instead, wrap them like the red and white stripes on an old barber shop post, or zig-zag them at 45 degrees or more so the canes will form more laterals.

When it comes time to prune, you just tip back the laterals and leave the main canes alone. If you have a once-bloomer like Cherokee Rose, you prune only just after flowering, and then let it grow back during the rest of the season -- that is, if you even want to prune it. Once-bloomers bloom on old wood, and if you cut it back in the spring before it blooms, you'll be reducing or eliminating the number of flowers it makes. Repeat-bloomers bloom on old and new wood, so if you prune before they flower you'll still get flowers. Then you can prune again in early summer after the first flush. Continual-bloomers can be cut back pretty much any time, but don't prune any rose in the fall if you have very cold winters. The rose will start to make new growth which won't have time to harden off before frost, and you'll end up with a lot of dead wood in the spring.

If you're ever looking for another great rose to grow along a fence, check out Darlow's Enigma . It also has masses of single white flowers and is very fragrant, but it blooms repeatedly. It can be a big self-supporting shrub in full sun, but in partial shade, it can climb trees.



ETA -- And if you are fine with a big once-blooming rose to cover more of the fence, there are lots of other ramblers out there.

Wow, what great info!!!

Does anyone have any recommendations for roses here in coastal carolina, just south of Charleston, SC??? Mild winters, but hot and HUMID summers! Plenty of bugs and mold and fungal diseases!

Thanks!

Juliette

 

[AquaEyes]

I don't live in South Carolina, but if I were you, I'd look into Noisette roses. They were first bred right there in Charleston from a cross between the Rosa moschata (also look here ) and the China rose "Old Blush ." You can probably also grow many of the Tea-Noisettes , which were bred by crossing the early Noisettes with Teas (not Hybrid Teas , which are a class of modern roses). Most Tea-Noisettes are built to be climbers, and most Noisettes are built to be broad shrubs. There are some really beautiful and fragrant roses in these two groups.

Bourbons are wonderful, but of all the old roses, they are the most prone to fungal problems. They tend to get better as the plant develops resistance when grown organically in a rich soil over a few years, though. And it's not often enough to kill the plant -- they just might go bare in the heat of the summer, which is the plant's way of ridding itself of the fungus. But the Bourbons are among the most fragrant of roses, so you might think they're worth it. The same goes for some of the Hybrid Perpetuals .

For smaller bushes, look at Chinas and Teas , but some Teas might be a bit tender even in SC's mild winters. In any case, these classes are warm-weather roses, and are the ones that do well in the humid south.

As far as once-bloomers, Damasks should do ok. Their smaller repeat-blooming Portland cousins might be a choice as well. Albas and Gallicas are not fans of the heat.

The problem with many modern roses is that they're such a mixed bag, being bred more for the flower than the plant. It's harder to say "Hybrid Teas do well here" because they are all so different in terms of hardiness, disease resistance, etc. If you choose the older Hybrid Teas, the ones bred before the introduction of the bright yellow shades from Rosa foetida f. persiana that began with Soleil d'Or , you'll find many that are better at handling heat and humidity. Rosa foetida f. persiana brought the bright yellow shades, but it also brought an increased susceptibility to blackspot and mildew (the wild species comes from a hot, dry environment).

There are other classes of modern roses besides Hybrid Teas. I'd advise you to learn about the general features of the old and modern classes and see which will fit your needs, and then choose your favorites from those classes. Then checking resources like HelpMeFind or a local rose society to find out what people are growing in your area will help you fine-tune your choices. It sounds like a lot of research, but it's better to make educated purchases than to buy whilly-nilly and have to "deal" with potential problems that will make you pull your hair out. Gardening is supposed to be fun.

 

[juliette2009]

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I agree...if I'm not enjoying it, I'm not doing it (or growing it!)

Thanks so much for all the advice...I'm nor on a new quest!

Juliette

 

[AquaEyes]

There are so many thousands of rose varieties out there. Don't pick the flower first -- pick the whole plant first. THEN find the flower you like best.

 

[kfchickenlady]

wow, great info, thanks aqua eyes, and great story about the cherokee privacy fence, better than concertina wire!!!

Now if only there was one that deer didnt like....

 

[starina]

I just found this thread! I grow quite a few roses here, some old, and some modern. I don't use any chemicals, indoors or out, and will give a rose a few years to see how it will do here. I love the form of many of the OGR's and fragrance! Most of my roses are on their own roots, and I suspect many of the grafted ones are(own-root) from being planted deep. In addition to the rose nurseries already mentioned (and I didn't read all that thoroughly, was too excited to find this), I have received excellent plants from Roses Unlimited.
So nice to see other rose lovers here! I'm looking forward to the coop cleanings to add to the beds.
I'll write more later, must rescue dinner from the oven