Rosemary's Necropsy Photos....WARNING! GRAPHIC!

[speckledhen]

Hi, John. Thanks for the article. I had dismissed IB, partly because of the lack of symptoms, and partly because the kidneys of the girls seemed fine, not mottled like the article mentions. The other organs seemed perfectly healthy, at least to my layman's eye. I've consulted books on poultry health that show how certain diseases affect the organs of the bird. And if it was actually IB, then you would think the rest of my flock would be affected, including the non-hatchery stock, but they haven't been. Something may change my mind later about it, but for now, I just cant imagine IB is the cause.
One of the girls, Lorelei, did have paler eggs with what looked like sealed cracks in them (I think that's what you're referring to on the other board), but I never got any of the wrinkled paper bag-looking ones you see in articles about IB. All of these were heavy layers. Rosemary rarely missed a day before 8 months ago. And the remaining SLW, Violet, is laying almost daily now with beautiful brown eggs. My remaining hatchery RIR is molting so has stopped laying for now, but I have never had any unusual eggs from her, nor from my original BRs, Lexie and Ivy. Ivy is the one who will probably die next from this. She's already skin and bones and hasn't laid in a couple of months.
Monique, I dont know why the infection makes the eggs start building up like that. A reference book I read said that in high production layers, often the connection between the vent and the oviduct becomes loose, allowing bacteria from poop (ecoli) to back up into the oviduct and cause infection. It said yes, it can be damage from IB, but can just be due to the ecoli entering the oviduct.

 

[ivan3]

Yes, that was the thread. One of our GSL's went down owing to internal laying during her second summer (all production SL's from Estes hatchery). She was not in so nearly an advanced stage when she died. Our remaining RSL's and BSL's will be 4yr. old in March. So far, so good (no eggs since late July but they seem to be healthy - kinda actin' like dowagers rather than debutantes, however).

Just like to rule out all the likely suspects

Take care,

John

 

[dlhunicorn]

I posted info and articles for you here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=105308&p=7

When a bird dies of IB it will leave different signs (necropsy) than when your bird had perhaps a mild case of it earlier and the reproductive tract was damaged (though you say all these birds had no signs of laying problems)... Mandys bird also did not show any signs of strange eggs till the very last minute if I remember correctly and that bird would also have died as yours have if she had not had the operation. Have a look at think on that info... I think it is a combination of several things.

 

[PurpleMoon]

I noticed you have a few different breeds die from this. I think something is going on maybe on your end or from the hatchery end. You should contact them with the pics.

 

[speckledhen]

John, I want to know why, too and I thank you for the reference. Trying to reason this out on paper here, I have a closed flock, never buying started birds, etc. When the first girls were 10 months old, we bought Hawkeye, who was the same age. Other than lice and favus and malnutrition, he wasn't ill, a miracle considering his conditions he was kept in at the time. He never was ill the entire time we had him, not even bumblefoot. He died from a reaction to a wound ointment or a coincidental heart attack, not sure which now. The only other bird to ever enter my flock came as an 8 week old pullet from a reputable source (a gift) and was quarantined. She is now seven months old and has never had so much as a sneeze. I've never brought any other birds here, except chicks from the hatchery all these girls came from and eggs I hatched that I bought from people I knew as reputable here on BYC, some I believe are even NPIP. The only other birds here have been the wild birds and I do not put out feeders for them so they do not congregate at a certain location.
I think if Hawkeye had been a carrier of anything, it would have manifested with my original girls, long before we hatched any here. If IB had run through the flock later, then certainly many more of my hens and pullets would have egg issues and not just the older hatchery hens. I have 42 birds here in addition to the original ten I started out with. None of them have had egg issues other than a soft shelled egg on a rare occasion, mostly related to the molt period.
Knowing all this, I have my doubts about IB being the cause. I just knew what was the cause.

EDITED TO ADD: I cannot see that it is anything on my end. The best food, great clean housing with good ventilation and insulation (just ask the BYCers who have seen my setup), wooded areas to freerange in, no kitchen scraps except the occasional tomato ends in season, just good wholesome food, including dark leafy greens I buy just for them. Not sure what could have happened on my end to cause internal laying. That is unless there is something bad in all chicken feed (I use numerous brands) like genetically modified grains or melamine, etc. BUT, all my girls eat the same feed, so why only hatchery birds?

 

[silkiechicken]

Sorry for your loss. At least you know they lived a good life while they were around.

Since the girls are over the "prime" age of like 2-3 years many people keep their birds, I wouldn't be surprised if it was in part genetic and that it doesn't show up "often" because the birds are culled early on and people don't take the time to look. I'm not sure how long hatcheries keep their breeding stock, but to be economical, I bet they keep breeders for at most 3 years or so, in which they make the most eggs for the most chicks. Problems that occur with age are never filtered out of the gene pool since they all reproduce when so young and removed once past prime.

 

[speckledhen]

That is a good point, Diana. Just makes me crazy that my girls are self-destructing before their third birthday. I have two hatchery Brahmas who will be two in January and I'll be watching those girls closely for signs of this. Well, I'll be watching them all, but especially those two approaching the time that they seem to get sick.

 

[ivan3]

Before I run I just wanted to post this (just a heads up to everyone on the lighting issue - supplementing dlhunicorn's execellent links above in the earlier thread). The ability to promote and then reduce ovarian tumors in turkeys by mere alteration in lighting schedule is something to consider. (not specific to cyn's travails).

http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agcomm/magazine/spring05/night.htm

 

[Mrs MIA]

I lost a brahma to this this summer... if you reach under them from the front, you can actually feel the mass in their abdomen. When I opened her up, there was a large "potato" inside her, too. Just like breast exams, I check my chickens abdomens routinely now. I have a black australorp that I'm watching now.

I really wish I could help with words of wisdom. All I have are words of caring.

 

[speckledhen]

I appreciate all the condolences. Only you people understand how one little hen can be so special.
John, the lighting is a good point. The first winter, I added light at the beginning of the day to make about 13-14 hours of daylight. Last year, I didnt do that, and I'm not doing it ever again. It's bad enough that they seem "programmed" to become internal layers. I dont want to contribute to that in any way, so they can rest when they need to rest.