run mud smells like a pig's sty and low tide....

[jamband]

i know it needs straw.....I have seen cob hold up very well exposed.............my whole point is that over time the bottom of that run is losing drainage ability not gaining.

 

[jamband]

You're hauling in bags when what you need is a dump truck load

Adding organic material will only make it hold more moisture, and create more odor as it rots

Not to be rude but there have been at 4 least 4 articles posted and 1000's mor through a simple google search that de bunk this... Adding organic matter improves drainage in clay soil.

 

[jamband]

You think that sand placed over clay soil will never mix??? I am not arguing that you can't clean your coop like a litter box. Simply stating that sand and clay dont mix.

 

[jamband]

I'm with Keltara totally. Ask the people who actually have animals and have no issues....if horse trainers put sand in their arenas and round pens, why do you suppose that is?! Go ahead and put down a nice layer of straw. Let it get wet, add a little more....in six months you will have a slimy slick stinky mess that is also heavy when you go to pitchfork it out of the run so you can try something else.
I have extensive experience with kennel runs and substrates. I have tried straw, mulch, heavy gravel, fine gravel and sand. Over the course of many years I have learned that sand is perfect. Easily cleaned, drains and dries fast, is comfortable for animals to stand or lay on, cheap to top off...what more could one ask?
Speckledhen has an excellent article on managing mud. Says exactly the same thing. Sand. Lots of it.
I do add leaves and stuff for my chickens to dig thru in their run, but it goes on top of a nice deep layer of sand, and I can rake it out when they are done having their fun.

This reminds me of when a friend called me to ask about how to keep grass in dog runs. I always kept my runs in grass and they were gorgeous, but when I told her about the required frequent mowing and considerable care to accomplish, she called someone who had mostly bare dirt with spots of surviving grass, and took that persons advice. ??!?

I have animals with no issues too.....they live on grass, the soil manages their manure and the manure improves the soil. Just like nature does. I dont mow, add sand, pick up poop(except from one spot in the coop) I rotate them . They have fresh bugs and forage everyday.....

Just because a trainer does something doesn't mean its good..... Look at what nature does.

 

[jamband]

sand and clay will result in compacted poorer than just clay draining soil

edited by staff

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: The point here is no to "improve the soil"

It's to increase drainage to keep things DRY

This has nothing at all to do with "composting"

I

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote:

Not to be rude but there have been at 4 least 4 articles posted and 1000's mor through a simple google search that de bunk this... Adding organic matter improves drainage in clay soil.

ENOUGH sand improves it even more.

Adding organic is great for a garden, but that's not the subject
Quote: You're basing all this on the idea that the clay and sand will be thoroughly mixed.

The proper way to do it is add the sand on TOP, building a layer of pure sand.
It's not about building materials, or cement, or gardens, or compost.

It's ALL about drainage and nothing more
That was stated over 25 posts ago by more than one person

 

[chick magnet]

I was also wondering how the wood chips would work.Like some bags of shredded mulch.Just to help give them something to walk and pick through but also giving the water a place to drain through.Not sure though,iv never tried it.

 

[jamband]

It's ALL about drainage and nothing more
That was stated over 25 posts ago by more than one person

AND Organic matter improves clay drainage while sand at less than 50% reduces drainage......I was never talking about gardens or compost. Just soil drainage.......If you find dump trucks of sand (which is rather bad for the environment) your answer than fine.....But there are free alternatives that will give you a much more sustainable long term result.

 

[Chris09]

AND Organic matter improves clay drainage while sand at less than 50% reduces drainage......I was never talking about gardens or compost. Just soil drainage.......If you find dump trucks of sand (which is rather bad for the environment) your answer than fine.....But there are free alternatives that will give you a much more sustainable long term result.

Both Organic material and Sand will improve drainage and soil texture. (You have to know what size sand to use)

I know that the OP's post has to do with a chicken run and not a garden but I will use a gardening example.

Typical you have to add 6 to 8 inches of good organic material to improve clay soil, now the typical garden is only tilled at the depth of 8 inches so that means that you have to add 50% of good organic mater to improve clay soil. The same amount as what you are saying one would have to of sand to improve clay soil.
Now organic material will help with drainage but it also retains a fare amount of moisture and that is the last thing you need around livestock/chickens. What you DO want is something that will improve drainage and also will not retain a lot of moisture. Course Sand and or Fine Gravel will do just that, it will improve drainage and it retains very little moisture.


Chris