Run planning - how high does hardware cloth need to go?

[rosemarythyme]

So it obviously would be safest to cover the entire thing with hardware cloth, but whether it's absolutely necessary depends on your predator load, predator types, budget, how you manage your set up, tolerance for loss, etc.

I have hardware cloth up 2' and out 2' in an apron, over chain link. Netting on top. It's less secure than what many people have, but my run is 20' from my living room and I can clearly hear the chickens from inside the house, and I'm home 90-95% of the time, so I rely on myself and hubby as a level of protection for the chickens as well. Coop is also fully enclosed by the run and closed up at night.

 

[perkolator]

To me the $300 or so I spent to put HC basically everywhere is less taxing than just one incident where the kids are crying over a dead flock, or a situation of more snakes coming to my property because I’ve got field mice here who hit up the spilled feed buffet every night.

 

[jewelg]

The panels in the pic aren't what we know as cattle panels here. The pen you posted has smaller openings than cattle panels. Really interesting though...

I would keep looking for "rabbit wire" "cage wire" or hardware cloth on sale.

I think we'll definitely be lining everything with hardware cloth after this discussion. In looking at cattle panels, there are a variety of stockyard panels (pardon if it seems like I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs. I'm a city girl, so all this is new to me) and the size of the holes as well as the sizes of the panels seem to be different if you're buying cattle, horse, or pig panels. I hadn't heard about rabbit panels, but 1/2 inch HC seems to be the clear winner for predator proofing. Thank you!

 

[jewelg]

I'm in LA too. We went for Ft. Knox and I'm glad we did...

If it were me, I'd redesign the enclosure to entirely contain your coop structure...

The other thing you need to think about is a roof with a generous overhang to provide good shade. Don't know where in LA you are but out here in the Valley we're already in temps that chickens need protection from. Chickens can and do die from heat exposure. My first line of defense is the shade of large trees and a sturdy roof with a broad overhang. Next is doubled layers of 80% shade cloth stretched out wherever I have to make my own shade. Number 3 is box fans. Finally, on the worst days, it's high-water-content fruits and veggies and big blocks of ice.

Best of luck with your project! I hope you enjoy your chickens as much as we do ours.

Hi, neighbor! Thanks for these tips. What I think we're going to do now is a hoop house as the run with a small coop entirely inside it. The hoop house will be walk in, though the coop will not be, and we'll add shade panels - your note on doubling up 80% shade cloth is great. We'll definitely need to be creating some shade since the only real shade at our property is too close to our house and too close to the neighbors to meet the city requirements... I haven't seen any notes on hoop houses in So Cal, though I've seen lots of discussion about how open air is a great system for warmer climates like ours. Great to meet you here!

 

[21hens-incharge]

I think we'll definitely be lining everything with hardware cloth after this discussion. In looking at cattle panels, there are a variety of stockyard panels (pardon if it seems like I'm teaching my granny to suck eggs. I'm a city girl, so all this is new to me) and the size of the holes as well as the sizes of the panels seem to be different if you're buying cattle, horse, or pig panels. I hadn't heard about rabbit panels, but 1/2 inch HC seems to be the clear winner for predator proofing. Thank you!

The only ones available here as "cattle panels" have big enough openings the chickens (even my big ones) can step through easily.
I found the ones in the picture interesting and rather liked the size of those openings much more than the cattle panels I used on my hoop run.

Rabbit wire and cage wire both have bigger openings.....1"x1/2" or something like that. Sometimes I see it on sale for less than hardware cloth. It is a heavier gauge too.

 

[NatJ]

Rabbit wire comes in rolls like hardware cloth, but is strong enough you can make a rabbit cage with no support other than the wire--just clip it together at the edges. It's usually got holes 1 x 2 inches (sides and top of cage, 14 gauge) or 1/2 by 1 inch (floor of cage, 14 or 16 gauge.)

Hardware cloth is often 19 gauge or something even lighter. (Wire gauge: bigger number means smaller/skinnier wire.)

With hardware cloth, you sometimes need a layer of stronger wire too, because big dogs can rip the hardware cloth apart. But the small holes of hardware cloth are needed to keep out rats, raccoon hands, weasels, and so forth. It really depends on what predators are in your area.

 

[IamRainey]

Good plan to make your enclosure tall enough to step into. You'll be glad about that for years to come! And do add that shade cloth. Not directly on your enclosure as that would inhibit ventilation but stretched out beyond it so it casts its shadow on your enclosure. I would estimate it drops the temperature in area my chickens inhabit by 20˚ when Summer makes us wonder why we chose SoCal.

PS Where in LA are you (but, of course, don't answer if you think it invades your privacy or compromises your online security).

 

[IamRainey]

Perfect or nothing at all means that there would be a whole lot of things we'd never be able to enjoy. Sometimes it just can't be perfect, but good enough can be enough. If we all waited for everything to be 100% then most of us would never have kids, or dogs, or anything significant at all.

Fair enough and, of course, you make the decisions you're going to live with for the circumstances and conditions you're in. It's just that there are costs and then there are costs. Losing chickens and dealing with that sort of trauma is another cost to think about too.

I am seriously not issuing orders. I'm just throwing out thoughts that someone who's in the planning stages should consider. [But there's no pretending I don't feel strongly about it.]

 

[jewelg]

The only ones available here as "cattle panels" have big enough openings the chickens (even my big ones) can step through easily.
I found the ones in the picture interesting and rather liked the size of those openings much more than the cattle panels I used on my hoop run.

Rabbit wire and cage wire both have bigger openings.....1"x1/2" or something like that. Sometimes I see it on sale for less than hardware cloth. It is a heavier gauge too.

I may have been mis-calling the panels. When I started looking at gardening archways people spoke about cattle panels. And then when I looked at hoop houses, that seemed to be the go-to, but there's an overlap between gardening and chickening! Hog panels seem to what's easier to find in my area - Malibu Feed Bin has them, but they're almost double the price of what Tractor Supply has. I did check them out in person the other day and they feel sturdy enough that a dog or coyote couldn't bite through the wire, but they're still flexible enough to bend into an arch. That said, I think what Malibu Feed had was a consistent hole size, and the panels at Tractor Supply have a graded size - the start small on one side and get bigger, so those larger holed sections would be a concern. I think a dog or coyote (or maybe something smaller) might have the space to rip out the hardware cloth and create an opening. Still investigating this one!

I do think with the right panel on the outside, and the hardware cloth on the inside, plus a good latch system and the predator apron, we should be pretty predator proof. That said, your first set-up, I think - is always a work in progress and you refine from there.

 

[jewelg]

Good plan to make your enclosure tall enough to step into. You'll be glad about that for years to come! And do add that shade cloth. Not directly on your enclosure as that would inhibit ventilation but stretched out beyond it so it casts its shadow on your enclosure. I would estimate it drops the temperature in area my chickens inhabit by 20˚ when Summer makes us wonder why we chose SoCal.

PS Where in LA are you (but, of course, don't answer if you think it invades your privacy or compromises your online security).

Right? My partner is 6'2" and while I'll be the one mostly taking care of the chickens, he can at least comfortable be in the run if we make it tall.

We're in Mid-City, so over near Washington and La Brea. With the shade cloth, what's your suspension system? Did you set it up with whatever it comes with, or did you make your own set up? I just looked at your profile, but didn't see any photos of your coop with your shade set up. Could you add some? Or are they on here somewhere and I missed them?