Russian Orloffs

[Chris09]

The rooster above is crele, not barred/cuckoo.

That Rooster isn't Crele.
At best he is a "Golden Cuckoo". If he was Crele the hackle and wing bay color would be Gold (not "silver").

Crele - -

Chris

 

[ashandvine]

That Rooster isn't Crele.
At best he is a "Golden Cuckoo". If he was Crele the hackle and wing bay color would be Gold (not "silver").

Crele - -

Chris

Nice game. He isn't the cuckoo I know, either black and white, blue or lemon, and we aren't talking up to SOP either. We were taking guesses since he is a cross with an orloff. He looks more like Crele to me.

http://www.perfectpekins.co.uk/coroale pekin.jpg

http://www.juststruttinfarm.com/photos.html
check out his Crele Penedesenca. It looks pretty similar in shade to the cross above. Any way it turns out to be, lavender or self blue, I think it would be interesting to see someone breeding Orloffs to look like this.

 

[Chris09]

The basic Crele is Black Breasted Red (wild type e+) with Barring (B) added but all Crele patterns are based on wild type e+ and are duck-wing.
The bird in question looks to carry Black Breasted Red, Barring and a Silver Gene (maybe Columbian) and just leaking Gold in the wing bow, hackles, and saddles. The Silver gene makes him Golden (as in a golden cuckoo) and not a Crele.
Now the U.K. type Cochin is a "Mock" Crele here in the U.S. because it is Birchen (E^r) with Barring added and not Black Breasted Red (wild type e+) with Barring (B) added.

Chris

 

[ashandvine]

I defer to you in this completely. Genetics is still something I struggle to read. I rely on what I learn to look for and you clearly have more experiencing looking than me!
How can a Silver gene make him Golden??
If the cock was a Spangled Orloff and the hen was a very pale blue barred bird, just based on a pic, then what's your guess for how this bird turned out like this?

 

[Chris09]

I defer to you in this completely. Genetics is still something I struggle to read. I rely on what I learn to look for and you clearly have more experiencing looking than me!
How can a Silver gene make him Golden??
If the cock was a Spangled Orloff and the hen was a very pale blue barred bird, just based on a pic, then what's your guess for how this bird turned out like this?

Ok, We can look at it like this.

If we take Black Breasted Red (gold) and cross it with a Silver Duck-Wing (silver) there offspring is Golden Duck-Wing.

Black Breasted Red........................................................................................................Silver Duck-Wing

Golden Duck-Wing

Chris

 

[Chris09]

Quote: The Blue Barred Bird must also carry something else in her. Example Columbian.



Chris

 

[ashandvine]

Wow! Thank you for the visuals (and the pun). I think I might understand the coding bit regarding this one little thing. (But likely not.) The silver and red compete genetically to create gold, like a person who has hazel eyes is a combo of brown and green?

I found this, which might interest folks, might not. http://www.katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/ProudHeritageAseel.html
This is a great picture of what I think a Spangled Orloff should look like-- minus the white tips on the sickles and hackles. *I* would be fine with this and its something I have seen in other artistic renditions of the Spangled Orloffs but I seem to be in the minority here. Clearly this is an Asil but put a bearded Orloff head on this picture and I say, "ooh la la."

Been talking a little with a man who owns and raises Asils. Saw one at the Poultry Congress. I was considering crossing a black into the Orloffs I have, in part to see if I could get some black Orloffs a few generations down the road, but one thing he mentioned was that the Orloff's mild temperament could be lost to the Asil's fighting disposition. I am a little leery now given that one things Orloffs are known for are their tough guy look and nice guy attitude. Others' thoughts or experiences here??

 

[Chris09]

Wow! Thank you for the visuals (and the pun). I think I might understand the coding bit regarding this one little thing. (But likely not.) The silver and red compete genetically to create gold, like a person who has hazel eyes is a combo of brown and green?

I found this, which might interest folks, might not. http://www.katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/ProudHeritageAseel.html
This is a great picture of what I think a Spangled Orloff should look like-- minus the white tips on the sickles and hackles. *I* would be fine with this and its something I have seen in other artistic renditions of the Spangled Orloffs but I seem to be in the minority here. Clearly this is an Asil but put a bearded Orloff head on this picture and I say, "ooh la la."

Been talking a little with a man who owns and raises Asils. Saw one at the Poultry Congress. I was considering crossing a black into the Orloffs I have, in part to see if I could get some black Orloffs a few generations down the road, but one thing he mentioned was that the Orloff's mild temperament could be lost to the Asil's fighting disposition. I am a little leery now given that one things Orloffs are known for are their tough guy look and nice guy attitude. Others' thoughts or experiences here??

Quote: Gold (red) + Silver = Golden

I believe Katherine Plumer did the art work in the new APA SOP.

If you cross a Spangled Orloff with a Black breed (Asil) there first generation offspring should be Black.

Chris

 

[ashandvine]

If you cross a Spangled Orloff with a Black breed (Asil) there first generation offspring should be Black.

Is there a hidden caveat that says the next gens won't be?

 

[Chris09]

Is there a hidden caveat that says the next gens won't be?

If the Black is split for mottling you might get so birds that are still spangled.

Chris