Safeguard and Feather Damage While Molting

[casportpony]

 
We give Safeguard at higher doses than normally quoted for use in water for three days and find it to be effective in worming with no harmful effects and NO loss of fertility in our tests.  I would guess we would have seen feather issues if they existed.  Of course most all worming effectiveness is circumstantial since it is not practical to actually measure some types of worm loads (capillary/cecal).

Fenbendazole is obviously has a high factor of safety with regards to dosage.  The fertility thing with regards to fenbendazole is something that has grown legs and become legend.  We have not specifically tested Valbazen with regards fertility but we have heard that it both does and does not cause infertility from folks we would trust. 

My husbands weiner dog passed some round worms after being on heartguard all his life and i questioned the vet about that as the meds were supose to keep them away and i asked if it was ok to go ahead and worm him with safeguard sence he had already had his meds and the vet informed me that there is a reason it is called safeguard, it is very hard to overdose an animal on it and it was ok to use it on Tobie even though he had his heartguard recently.

True... It's used in cats, kittens, dogs, puppies, foals, pregnant mares, breeding stallions, calves, cows, bulls, pigs, sheep, goats, ect. (basically all mammals), all types of birds and reptiles. The lethal dose in mice and rats is huge, much greater than all other wormers I have read about. I'm not positive, but I believe it doesn't have any drug interactions either, which makes it an ideal choice for treating our peas when we aren't quite sure what they might have (blackhead, coccidiosis, E. Coli, worms or a combo of problems).

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

First application of Safeguard accomplished. I figured the weight of all birds to be treated and multiplied the dosage, added that to the regular amount of water it takes to make the mash. Mixed it up and they had no problem eating it freely. They had it chowed down within a few minutes and it was back out to free range the rest of the day, where they are comfortably enjoying our deck furniture.....

This is so easy, and the piece of mind knowing that all the medication is going INTO the birds is priceless, unlike the liter of Safeguard, but nothing is free right? Anyway, I am glad that the birds do not find the taste of the Safeguard offensive.

 

[casportpony]

First application of Safeguard accomplished.  I figured the weight of all birds to be treated and multiplied the dosage, added that to the regular amount of water it takes to make the mash.  Mixed it up and they had no problem eating it freely.  They had it chowed down within a few minutes and it was back out to free range the rest of the day, where they are comfortably enjoying our deck furniture.....

This is so easy, and the piece of mind knowing that all the medication is going INTO the birds is priceless, unlike the liter of Safeguard, but nothing is free right?  Anyway, I am glad that the birds do not find the taste of the Safeguard offensive.

Lol, that liter is not cheap, is it? Glad you got it done.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Kathy, you and my vet are on the exact same page!  She gave me the same dosing instructions you give here and for the five days.  I asked about Valbazen and she said that she recommends Safeguard because it is safer.  The five days is to insure that ALL worms are killed, and that a second application is not needed but worming may be necessary more often than two times a year.

I asked about the standard recommendation that we all read here about the three CCs per gallon of water and she said that would be totally ineffective.

The fecals done today, one from the grow out pen and one from the adults showed Cocci in the chicks with one round worm egg and no Cocci in the adults with only a couple of round worm eggs.  I have been giving the .006% preventative dosage in the chicks since doing the moderate dosing for one week.  Her thought was that since the chicks have been growing that I probably have not been giving enough to keep up with their growth rate.  She ordered a liter of Safeguard for me and I will start the adults tomorrow and I have upped the Corid dosage on the chicks feed tonight already.

I am very happy that the Corid in the feed has cleaned up the adult Cocci and with your and my vets recommendations I know what direction to go.  Thanks to all for the input.   

________________________________

So how many CCs of Safeguard in water would you use? I've used as much as 5 CCs in a gallon. Is that enough? Thanks!

Five cc's in a gallon isn't likely to be very effective either. Think about it... If you were going to give it orally, how much would you give per bird? Let's pretend you have 5 hens, all about 4kg. If you were to dose them at 50mg/kg, which is what I do, you would need to put 10ml in an amount of water that they will drink in one day. Will five hens drink a gallon in one day? I honestly don't know.

-kathy

 

[casportpony]

If a 4kg hen drinks 20% of her body weigh per day, then yes, 5 4kg hens will drink slightly more than one gallon, but I suspect that a mature pea drinks something close to 10% it's body weight per day, which using this example means five hens would drink around 1/2 a gallon.

Now take 3cc per gallon example (300mg total)... if a 4kg hen drinks ~10% of her body weight (~400ml), then each hen will get 30mg (0.3ml) or 7.5mg/kg, and that's *if* the five hens drink 1/2 of it. Make sense?

If those five 4kg hens drink closer to 20% of their body weight per day then they amount of medication they would get is 60mg (0.6ml) or 15mg/kg.

Everyone, please feel free to correct my math or add comments of *any* type, lol (don't worry about stepping on my toes).

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

My peas don't drink much water. During the summer I am sure that they drink more than they do now that the weather has cooled down. I have been watching the water intake of my pens, the grow out pen with forty young ranging from 800 grams to 1600 grams drink about one gallon per day That is roughly two and a half ounces. The free ranging adults that are penned up for about sixteen hours per day will consume about a gallon every two days between thirty two birds. I can not be accurate of water intake as they also drink from the pond and the creek. Add to that one half gallon per feeding for wetting the mash.

So my variables include not only weather but the fact that they get a wet mash twice per day that would lessen their need for water. I also see that the forty young and growing chicks eat quite a bit more than thirty fully grown adults.

 

[zazouse]

My peas don't drink much water unless the hens are laying and the males are fighting this is another reason i dose their food with wormer rather than put it into their water , plus once they are fully free ranged i have no control over where they get their water but i can guarantee they will eat all the eggs and oatmeal i make them

 

[casportpony]

There is some data on chickens and the amount they drink. It's something like:
Growing chicks, 18-20% bw/day
Laying hens, 13.6% bw/day
All others, 5.5% bw/day

So I agree with Zazouse and KsKingBee, putting the wormer in the food seems like the obvious choice. Of course orally would be best, but I can see why people might not want to.

-Kathy

 

[AugeredIn]

Quote: Like because they would have to catch and treat well over 100 of them

? The Safeguard in the liter size is actually a deal compared to the 125 ml prices. When you start buying layer pellets by the ton, cat food in 200 lb increments and shredded greens by the 10 bag box whats $120.00 for wormer?

 

[casportpony]

.... Of course orally would be best, but I can see why people might not want to.


-Kathy

Like because they would have to catch and treat well over 100 of them ? The Safeguard in the liter size is actually a deal compared to the 125 ml prices.  When you start buying layer pellets by the ton, cat food in 200 lb increments and shredded greens by the 10 bag box whats $120.00 for wormer?

True, lol. I'm all about doing things the least expensive way possible, even if it means spending more upfront.

-Kathy