Safeguard Mash - Zero Day Egg Withdrawal

[Roxie5739]

Valbazen would require withdrawal if that sort of thing worries you, so would Safeguard if you use *any* of the doses mentioned in your thread.

However, if you were to use a very small dose of Safeguard 5 days in a row you would not need to toss the eggs. Safeguard in small doses for 5 days in a row is approved for use in laying hens.
View attachment 1949116
View attachment 1949117

The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml per five pounds for five days.

If you don't want to hassle treating each bird you could try feeding it to them in a mash. If I were going to do that this is how I would do it.

1. Count number of birds to be treated.
2. Estimate the weight of each bird.
3. Calculate flock weight. For example, if you have 10 leghorns at ~4 pounds each and 10 RIR's at 6 pounds each, that's 100 pounds of birds.
4. Calculate the amount of Safeguard needed. In my example it's 100 (weight of flock) divide by 2.2 (this converts to kg) times 1 (the dose needed) divide by 100 (the amount of medication in one ml) 100 ÷ 2.2 x 1 ÷ 100 = 0.45 ml
5. Set aside the amount of pellets or crumbles they will eat in a day in a big container.
6. Mix the 0.45 ml of Safeguard in some amount of water, two cups maybe? Add the water/Safeguard mixture to the crumbles, stir a little, then add more water until the feed is nice and wet. Mix *very* well.
7. Repeat for five days and this should treat large roundworms and cecal worms, but will not treat capillary worms and this should not be done if your flock has capillary worms.

Note: If one has capillary worms in their flock a higher dose is needed and that higher dose will require egg withdrawal.


Please, always check my math, 'cause I do make lots of mistakes.

http://www.dosagehelp.com/dosage_by_weight.html

Can you advise more on the Safeguard in the water and egg withdrawal theory? I thought I had to do the withdrawal if I added 3ml per gallon of drinking water for 5 days.

So far it has worked for me but one chicken still has tape worms in her poop after 5 days. So frustrating.

 

[coach723]

Unless you are using Safeguard Aquasol you can't mix it in water, it will settle out and dosing will be wrong. The liquid goat wormer and horse paste cannot be mixed with water. If you do the mash with feed and water it doesn't settle out. It's best to give it to each bird directly orally instead, to ensure they get the correct dose, and then the withdrawl is followed, if you worry about that. The mash method is a low enough dose to not require a withdrawl. Safeguard Aquasol also has no recommended egg withdrawl (the aquasol is very expensive).
Safeguard is not really effective for tapeworm, for that you need praziquantel, which you can get in Zimectrin Gold or Equimax horse pastes. Dosing for those is here in post #6: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/tapeworms-that-wont-go-away.1130035/

 

[Ted Brown]

@casportpony "However, if you were to use a very small dose of Safeguard 5 days in a row you would not need to toss the eggs. Safeguard in small doses for 5 days in a row is approved for use in laying hens.



The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml per five pounds for five days."

 

[Peggsblueinc]

Yeah, I guess there is an art to getting the right amount of food out for them, but I think if they all leave with full crops then they probably got their dose.

The liquid for goats is not water soluble and settles very quickly.


No such thing as a silly question.

You say it isn’t water soluble. I put it in their water dish. So I take it I wasted it? And can chickens over dose?

 

[coach723]

It settles out of water, you need to give it directly, orally. They won't get the correct dose mixed in water, so I wouldn't consider them treated. Likely they didn't take nearly enough in, rather than got too much. It would likely take a very large amount to cause a problem. I would redose them orally with the correct dose. When you mix it into the mash made with feed, it sticks to the feed, so theoretically they get the correct amount. I personally prefer to just give it orally so there is no question. Sometimes a bird that is carrying a load of worms may not feel well, and may not eat well, so it can be hard to be sure with the mash. If you want a wormer that mixes in water then Safeguard Aquasol can be used, but it's very, very expensive.

 

[Saraschickens]

Valbazen would require withdrawal if that sort of thing worries you, so would Safeguard if you use *any* of the doses mentioned in your thread.

However, if you were to use a very small dose of Safeguard 5 days in a row you would not need to toss the eggs. Safeguard in small doses for 5 days in a row is approved for use in laying hens.
View attachment 1949116
View attachment 1949117

The approved dose is 1 mg/kg for five days and that works out to ~0.023 ml per five pounds for five days.

If you don't want to hassle treating each bird you could try feeding it to them in a mash. If I were going to do that this is how I would do it.

1. Count number of birds to be treated.
2. Estimate the weight of each bird.
3. Calculate flock weight. For example, if you have 10 leghorns at ~4 pounds each and 10 RIR's at 6 pounds each, that's 100 pounds of birds.
4. Calculate the amount of Safeguard needed. In my example it's 100 (weight of flock) divide by 2.2 (this converts to kg) times 1 (the dose needed) divide by 100 (the amount of medication in one ml) 100 ÷ 2.2 x 1 ÷ 100 = 0.45 ml
5. Set aside the amount of pellets or crumbles they will eat in a day in a big container.
6. Mix the 0.45 ml of Safeguard in some amount of water, two cups maybe? Add the water/Safeguard mixture to the crumbles, stir a little, then add more water until the feed is nice and wet. Mix *very* well.
7. Repeat for five days and this should treat large roundworms and cecal worms, but will not treat capillary worms and this should not be done if your flock has capillary worms.

Note: If one has capillary worms in their flock a higher dose is needed and that higher dose will require egg withdrawal.


Please, always check my math, 'cause I do make lots of mistakes.

http://www.dosagehelp.com/dosage_by_weight.html

Hello, I just dosed my chickens this way. I just weighed my one coop which came out to 127.4 lbs of chickens. With your equation my dose came out to 0.5790909091 of a ml for 49 chickens. That dose in the mash, for 5 days straight. Is that correct? It seems too small. At that rate, a dose of .25 ml per pound in a 1 time dose is 31.75 ml total for that many pounds, and at the .58ml per day, it's 2.9 by the end of the 5 days. Is that all correct?
My other coop came out to 65.6 lbs, so 0.30ml per day.

 

[casportpony]

Hello, I just dosed my chickens this way. I just weighed my one coop which came out to 127.4 lbs of chickens. With your equation my dose came out to 0.5790909091 of a ml for 49 chickens. That dose in the mash, for 5 days straight. Is that correct? It seems too small. At that rate, a dose of .25 ml per pound in a 1 time dose is 31.75 ml total for that many pounds, and at the .58ml per day, it's 2.9 by the end of the 5 days. Is that all correct?
My other coop came out to 65.6 lbs, so 0.30ml per day.

If you want to eat the eggs during treatment, and you don't have capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 1 / 100 = 0.579 ml (I'd round up to 0.6ml) for five days

If you don't mind the two-week egg withdrawal, or you want to treat capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 28.95 ml (I'd round up to 30ml) for five days.

Does that help?

 

[Saraschickens]

If you want to eat the eggs during treatment, and you don't have capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 1 / 100 = 0.579 ml (I'd round up to 0.6ml) for five days

If you don't mind the two-week egg withdrawal, or you want to treat capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 28.95 ml (I'd round up to 30ml) for five days.

Does that help?

Ok, thank you!
I ended up treating my 4 full free roamers with the .25 (.23) per pound dose in their mouths and treated the remaining chickens with the mash. Thank you!

 

[Saraschickens]

If you want to eat the eggs during treatment, and you don't have capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 1 / 100 = 0.579 ml (I'd round up to 0.6ml) for five days

If you don't mind the two-week egg withdrawal, or you want to treat capillary worms:

• 127.4 pounds / 2.2 x 50 / 100 = 28.95 ml (I'd round up to 30ml) for five days.

Does that help?

Hello! I'm on day 5 now of dosing with the mash. Their poops are looking so much better! So far, the loose poos are basically gone and less shed linings as well!
After reading through this whole thread I just found the conversation about doing this same mash dosing 10-14 days later. I believe I caught that you weren't sure... but I see this thread has been going on for over 5 years. So I was wondering if I'm supposed to do a second round of mash?
Also, I was wondering how I go about cleaning the coop to remove as many worm eggs as possible? Removing all bedding, etc.
And then, ideally for me, cleaning with products I might already have (ie: vinegar, peroxide, rubbing alcohol, EMs, DE, herbs, spices...)? We have an atomizer, so we can spray the entire coop and run very thoroughly. Not all my nesting boxes are removable. 12 are built in.
My flooring is dirt at the moment. Shavings from the nesting boxes get kicked out onto it constantly.
I'm considering the deep litter method, but my coop and run are combined, so I'm not sure how to implement that. I was thinking of using straw. I was thinking that possibly after cleaning the floor well, that adding the 3 inch layer of straw might assist in covering up any leftover eggs so they can die off?
Thank you in advance for any help, advice or suggestions anyone might have for me!

 

[coach723]

I'm not sure about the second round of mash, but when treating gapeworm or capillary worms with the five day treatment at full strength no repeat is needed after the five day run.
For getting rid of them in the environment, it's nearly impossible. Most of the species eggs (they have a very tough coating/shell) are very resistant to chemicals of all kinds, the meds kill the worms but not the eggs, which is why one treatment dose isn't enough, the treatments kill the worms in the birds, so repeat treatments are needed to get the eggs that continue to hatch, until they are all gotten. Burning the ground will work, but it's not really doable for most set ups (this is why in rural agricultural areas field burning is common every year). Rotating pastures/ground can help, but again for many that isn't doable either because of space or structures that can't move. So keep droppings cleaned up as well as you can, keep bedding and shavings etc as dry as possible. Deep litter works, but only if it stays dry. In an open run that gets wet a lot or stays wet, it will be a stinky mess. To truly control worms when they are in your environment the best way to deal with it is to worm regularly. Roundworm eggs can survive 10 years in laboratory conditions, and at least several years in even very harsh winter environments. If you worm monthly for several years, you may be able to get rid of them, or reduce the load. But every time a bird gets infected they shed 1000's of eggs in their droppings into the environment again. And wild birds can bring them in too the same way. I would just keep things as clean as you reasonably can without making yourself crazy, use feeders to discourage them eating off the ground (you will never stop them scratching around and finding things), keep feeders and waterers clean, and worm regularly for the type and load you have. Some people can do once or twice a year and that's enough, some will have to do more often, every flock and every environment is different. For some worms, like tapeworm, an intermediary host (cockroaches, earthworms, slugs, etc) is needed, so getting rid of, or reducing, the numbers of that host can help.